New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

User avatar
NBischoff
Posts: 79
Joined: Mon Jun 04, 2018 9:16 pm
Location: Federal Way, WA

New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by NBischoff »

Here's a clip of Chris Glassman trying out the new Yamaha bass trombone prototype along with a quick write-up from his instagram.

If you were at ATW and and also got a chance to play this horn, I'd be very interested to hear your thoughts on it. I'm hoping it will be available to try at ITF as well.
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Matt K »

I thought the basses played pretty well. I liked all of the screw bells on the Yamaha stand more than the non screw bells… except for the basses. But the newer model, yellow brass without the screw bell played great. I loved the built in thumb supports they added too. I didn’t have a chance to swap slides. I think a 578 lower could have put it on par with my Shires to be honest. A 562/578 with the screw bell may have been good too. In the lower registers it didn’t speak as easily as I’m used to when playing quietly or at a moderate dynamic. I can’t remember, do they have sealable leadpipes? If so, it dawns on me I didn’t try any alternatives to what was in there so that might also have been a consideration. I was also playing an Elliott 10 shank, and an 8 may have been a better fit.
User avatar
Finetales
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:31 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Finetales »

Interesting! Hopefully they have some at NAMM I can try.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

Looks like Glassman normally plays a Yamaha 613H with a screw bell modification? I am really interested about what improvements they made to the valves, given that they had pretty much left their bass trombone valves the same for decades. Maybe more material machined out of the rotors?
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Matt K »

That’s what the rep told me. A little bit “opened up” and a few tweaks to the geometry. They also had a new set of linkages iirc.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

Matt K wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:31 pm That’s what the rep told me. A little bit “opened up” and a few tweaks to the geometry. They also had a new set of linkages iirc.
Yeah, looks like they may be retiring the thumb paddle type, which was just a thing that sticks onto the bar they have used for decades. Should be interesting to see.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
ZacharyThornton
Posts: 477
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:51 am

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by ZacharyThornton »

On a different note than the horn, Chris is a beast!! Love his playing. Not many bass bone players can play bop like he can. (Can’t think of anyone right now)
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

ZacharyThornton wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 8:17 pm On a different note than the horn, Chris is a beast!! Love his playing. Not many bass bone players can play bop like he can. (Can’t think of anyone right now)
He's a great player, and that is a great sound. Looks like he's playing a Pickett 1.75, which is "only" 2.81mm, but still is hitting those low notes great.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
spencercarran
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by spencercarran »

But it looks like they kept the valve wrap from the 830, meaning no G tuning out of the box...
User avatar
bassclef
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:30 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by bassclef »

Looks like the horn Chris plays in the video has a gold tuning slide also. I know they're shipping gold tuning slides with the cut-bell 891ZD. Not sure if that's true for the 882OD but they did have a gold slide on the 20th anniversary model.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

bassclef wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:18 am Looks like the horn Chris plays in the video has a gold tuning slide also. I know they're shipping gold tuning slides with the cut-bell 891ZD. Not sure if that's true for the 882OD but they did have a gold slide on the 20th anniversary model.
Yamaha uses Gold tinted lacquer currently, so it can be tough to tell. The 891ZD's pictures I have seen don't seem to show a gold brass tuning slide, but it is harder to tell even without colored lacquer. The ones pictured for Chuck Levin's and Thomanns both look to have yellow brass tuning slides.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
bassclef
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:30 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by bassclef »

tbonesullivan wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:13 pm
bassclef wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 9:18 am Looks like the horn Chris plays in the video has a gold tuning slide also. I know they're shipping gold tuning slides with the cut-bell 891ZD. Not sure if that's true for the 882OD but they did have a gold slide on the 20th anniversary model.
Yamaha uses Gold tinted lacquer currently, so it can be tough to tell. The 891ZD's pictures I have seen don't seem to show a gold brass tuning slide, but it is harder to tell even without colored lacquer. The ones pictured for Chuck Levin's and Thomanns both look to have yellow brass tuning slides.
That's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

bassclef wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pmThat's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
If they are a Yamaha artist it's possible they special requested it, or maybe made it just for them? It would be nice if they offer that as an option.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
sirisobhakya
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:04 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by sirisobhakya »

tbonesullivan wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 1:50 pm
bassclef wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pmThat's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
If they are a Yamaha artist it's possible they special requested it, or maybe made it just for them? It would be nice if they offer that as an option.
The catalog (in Japanese) states that it is possible to order the tuning slide in gold brass. However it would take 4-5 month. And if you are not in Japan it can be quite difficult. I am trying to order a gold brass tuning slide for my 830 right now. Too many phone calls from Yamaha Music Thailand.
Chaichan Wiriyaswat
Bangkok, Thailand
“Why did I buy so many horns when I only have one mouth…?”
BassboneJ25
Posts: 131
Joined: Wed Feb 05, 2020 3:05 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by BassboneJ25 »

I thought the uncut version of this trombone was amazing. One of the top horns there for sure!
JGoldBone
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:32 am
Location: CA

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by JGoldBone »

bassclef wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pm
tbonesullivan wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:13 pm Yamaha uses Gold tinted lacquer currently, so it can be tough to tell. The 891ZD's pictures I have seen don't seem to show a gold brass tuning slide, but it is harder to tell even without colored lacquer. The ones pictured for Chuck Levin's and Thomanns both look to have yellow brass tuning slides.
That's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
The 891ZD comes with a gold tint lacquered, yellow brass tuning slide. there is a special order .500" bore slide model with the smaller 7.5" bell (897Z) that comes from the factory with a gold brass tuning slide. The new bass model and all variations will come standard with a gold brass tuning slide.
JGoldBone
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:32 am
Location: CA

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by JGoldBone »

Finetales wrote: Mon Mar 13, 2023 5:02 pm Interesting! Hopefully they have some at NAMM I can try.
Yes there will be at least one version on the NAMM display to try.
User avatar
bassclef
Posts: 199
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 8:30 am
Location: Ohio, USA

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by bassclef »

JGoldBone wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:06 am
bassclef wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 12:46 pm
That's true - the pics on Yamaha's site and the others I looked at after reading your post, don't seem to reflect this. I was messaging with a newly minted Yamaha artist recently about a mouthpiece he was selling and saw he was playing an 891ZD. He's where I got the info that they come with gold brass tuning slides now. I got the impression that was standard, but perhaps it's an option?
The 891ZD comes with a gold tint lacquered, yellow brass tuning slide. there is a special order .500" bore slide model with the smaller 7.5" bell (897Z) that comes from the factory with a gold brass tuning slide. The new bass model and all variations will come standard with a gold brass tuning slide.
Thanks for the info.

I just read your profile. Welcome, thanks for joining the forum!
JGoldBone
Posts: 3
Joined: Wed Apr 05, 2023 10:32 am
Location: CA

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by JGoldBone »

bassclef wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 12:32 pm
JGoldBone wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 11:06 am The 891ZD comes with a gold tint lacquered, yellow brass tuning slide. there is a special order .500" bore slide model with the smaller 7.5" bell (897Z) that comes from the factory with a gold brass tuning slide. The new bass model and all variations will come standard with a gold brass tuning slide.
Thanks for the info.

I just read your profile. Welcome, thanks for joining the forum!
Anytime! Happy to be here.
hornbuilder
Posts: 854
Joined: Wed May 02, 2018 9:20 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by hornbuilder »


Anytime! Happy to be here.
Welcome! Would you be willing to put your name in your post signature? I always find it better if we know who is making comments, as opposed to an anonymous handle. (That is the one big issue I have with this forum. But I will now get off my soapbox. As long as you get off my lawn!! Grumble grumble 🙂)
Matthew Walker
Owner/Craftsman, M&W Custom Trombones, LLC, Jackson, Wisconsin.
Former Bass Trombonist, Opera Australia, 1991-2006
MStarke
Posts: 501
Joined: Tue Jan 01, 2019 4:33 pm
Location: Germany
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by MStarke »

This prototype seems very interesting! I live only 20 minutes away from Yamaha Europe and have never gone there. I guess I really should do it one day.
hornbuilder wrote: Wed Apr 05, 2023 6:01 pm

Anytime! Happy to be here.
Welcome! Would you be willing to put your name in your post signature? I always find it better if we know who is making comments, as opposed to an anonymous handle. (That is the one big issue I have with this forum. But I will now get off my soapbox. As long as you get off my lawn!! Grumble grumble 🙂)
Totally agreed! I also totally prefer communicating when I know the real name - and this could also help some of the non-pleasant discussions that take place here. My profile name and website are telling it already, but I will also put my full name in the signature now.
Markus Starke
https://www.mst-studio-mouthpieces.com/

Alto: Conn 35h, Kanstul, Weril
Tenor: 3x Conn 6h, Blessing medium, Elkhart 88H, modern 88HT, Greenhoe Conn 88HT, Kruspe, Heckel, Piering replica
Bass: Conn 112h, Greenhoe, Conn 60h
chrisglassman1
Posts: 1
Joined: Mon Apr 10, 2023 8:58 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by chrisglassman1 »

Just wanted to chime in with my experiences. Thanks for sharing the video, and for the kind words!

I do regularly play a 613H with a screw bell conversion from Josh Landress. I can report that these new horns have significant improvements in valve blow and response (I've always been partial to rotors myself), and the screw bell from the factory (I obviously play a screw bell mod for my main horn, so that's what I'm used to) allows for even more warmth and response in the sound. I got the chance to play both the yellow and gold brass (yellow brass in the video), and both provided a nice change of color, I may prefer the gold brass but I'd need time with both to be sure! Overall, I would be super excited to get some time with one of these when they're in production, if you're at NAMM or ITF, I would give them a spin, pop a few low Cs for me!

Chris Glassman
User avatar
Finetales
Posts: 858
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 12:31 pm
Location: Los Angeles
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Finetales »

I played the 835 (no screw bell, they only had the fixed bell model) at NAMM yesterday. Definitely a noticeable improvement over the 830, with a similar feel. Response felt especially improved. Overall still not my cup of tea, but I have a feeling that people who like the 830 are going to really love the 835. Nice improvement in the Gb paddle design as well, very comfortable.
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Burgerbob »

I played it, and it honestly just felt like one of the better 830s.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
Boneuphtoner
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Boneuphtoner »

It looks like this is no longer a prototype, and the 830 has been discontinued. Interesting that the Yamaha website says the screw bell models do not include a case. They have both traditional and screw bell versions on the Yamaha USA website. The built in hand rest looks a lot like the Edwards bullet brace.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

Yep, some interesting food for thought in there. From the looks of it, they changed the rotors to be "D-shaped" inside instead of having round ports, in an effort to get more sound through the horn? Also they say that the mouthpiece insertion depth, which had been a thing since the 613H, has now been made "better", but there is no mention of exactly how much less the insertion depth is, or whether any real changes were made to the leadpipe design.

I'm also kinda intrigued by the use of a double ended spring on the F trigger instead of the single sided. As for the changing of the other end of the F-attachment linkage to a miniball style... I always wondered why they didn't do that years ago, instead of the weird dual-axis design they have used for decades. I wonder if this change will percolate to the other members of the Xeno line.

https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical ... index.html
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
WGWTR180
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by WGWTR180 »

9K????
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

WGWTR180 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm9K????
Yeah.. I saw that, which is weird because no other trombones that I looked at have an MSRP even listed... and that price is uh... what?

The detachable bell horns are only $200 more.. but... no case comes with them. Which is a damn shame because Yamaha designed some damn near bulletproof cases in the 90s.. I would have loved to see what they would come up with for a cut bell trombone.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by harrisonreed »

Boneuphtoner wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm It looks like this is no longer a prototype, and the 830 has been discontinued.
Yaaaay!

What were they thinking with that design?!? Based on the video the guys mouthpiece is ether very long, built up, or they fixed the leadpipe.

"The ability to put more air into the horn" 😂

More like, the ability for any input to actually be efficient and resonate. The 830 takes ALL the air and gives you no output lol. I hope they fixed the stuffiness when using both valves.

No bell specs. I wonder if it is unsoldered.

In any case, it would be great to try it. If they actually fixed the "efficient feel, ability to put more air through the instrument, with a more robust sound" it might be the greatest bass trombone of all time. For $9K it better be!
User avatar
Matt K
Verified
Posts: 3945
Joined: Tue Mar 20, 2018 10:34 pm
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Matt K »

My recollection is it's soldered bell bead. I tried it at ATW. I didn't like the non-cut bells, but the ones that were cut were really good. I suspect the 9k is MSRP and the actual price people pay will be less than that.

The 835 also has a really nice "bullet brace" built into the linkage setup, too.
User avatar
spencercarran
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by spencercarran »

That's same ballpark as MSRP on a standard rotor valve Bach 50B3, so obviously not the actual music store price.

Specs also list a new, approximately Yeo-sized mouthpiece that's supposed to come with it. Wonder what the story behind that is.
Boneuphtoner
Posts: 60
Joined: Thu Jul 05, 2018 3:30 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Boneuphtoner »

Looks like Tomer Maschkowski had the prototype a few months ago - some really fine playing here with his Dad:

tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

Boneuphtoner wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 pm Looks like Tomer Maschkowski had the prototype a few months ago - some really fine playing here with his Dad:
He really is a great player, and there are videos of him playing a Cut bell 830 or maybe 830G from 3 years ago. I wonder if he was working with Yamaha on this back then (he's been a yamaha artist since 2018), or whether they saw what he'd done and decided he'd be the one to work with on the next version of the 613H/830. Also seen some pictures of him with an 830G using a Yeo mouthpiece and with one of the valve caps swapped out with the 822G style.

The new horn looks to have Brass valve caps, which is an interesting change. My 830 actually has Aluminum valve caps, not Nickel Silver as I usually would see on Yamaha horns.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
WGWTR180
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by WGWTR180 »

spencercarran wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:54 pm That's same ballpark as MSRP on a standard rotor valve Bach 50B3, so obviously not the actual music store price.

Specs also list a new, approximately Yeo-sized mouthpiece that's supposed to come with it. Wonder what the story behind that is.
Yes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one. :)
User avatar
sirisobhakya
Posts: 296
Joined: Mon Jun 11, 2018 8:04 pm
Location: Bangkok, Thailand
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by sirisobhakya »

Boneuphtoner wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 2:10 pm It looks like this is no longer a prototype, and the 830 has been discontinued. Interesting that the Yamaha website says the screw bell models do not include a case. They have both traditional and screw bell versions on the Yamaha USA website. The built in hand rest looks a lot like the Edwards bullet brace.
I think the 830 is only discontinued in Europe and the US. Yamaha still lists the 830 on Japanese and Thai website.
Chaichan Wiriyaswat
Bangkok, Thailand
“Why did I buy so many horns when I only have one mouth…?”
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

WGWTR180 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 amYes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one. :)
I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".
Last edited by tbonesullivan on Wed May 10, 2023 6:57 am, edited 2 times in total.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
WGWTR180
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by WGWTR180 »

tbonesullivan wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 amYes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one. :)
I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".
I didn't say something was wrong with the lead pipe. I was repeating what someone else said and why I put "fixed" in quotes. However many of todays mouthpieces have different shanks than what was available years ago. My favorite 1 and 1/2G goes too far into the Yamaha basses. Ask people who play Shires trombones how the lead pipes have changed since the very beginning, especially the bass pipes.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

WGWTR180 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 6:55 amI didn't say something was wrong with the lead pipe. I was repeating what someone else said and why I put "fixed" in quotes. However many of todays mouthpieces have different shanks than what was available years ago. My favorite 1 and 1/2G goes too far into the Yamaha basses. Ask people who play Shires trombones how the lead pipes have changed since the very beginning, especially the bass pipes.
I think the Duo Gravis leadpipe was an attempt to have a more continuous taper from the throat of the mouthpiece through the leadpipe. There's actually supposed to be a "step" in the receiver due to this.

I've always wondered what the reasoning Yamaha had for the larger engagement. They rarely seem to make a change without a good reason, and they made that pipe for the 613H, instead of using a pipe they already had. They also could have just taken the leadpipe, which is two piece, and shortened it from the machined receiver end. Though that's also true for the Duo Gravis design.

Now the bigger question: is the YBL-835 leadpipe really a "new" leadpipe, or did they just machine off 3-4mm from the top of the receiver on the 613H/830 leadpipe.
Last edited by tbonesullivan on Wed May 10, 2023 8:35 am, edited 1 time in total.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
spencercarran
Posts: 626
Joined: Sat Oct 17, 2020 1:02 pm
Location: Chicago

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by spencercarran »

WGWTR180 wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 5:40 am
spencercarran wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 7:54 pm That's same ballpark as MSRP on a standard rotor valve Bach 50B3, so obviously not the actual music store price.

Specs also list a new, approximately Yeo-sized mouthpiece that's supposed to come with it. Wonder what the story behind that is.
Yes, understood, however I wouldn't pay 1 half of MSRP for a new Bach 50 these days. MSRP seems like an old way to do business. But that's just me I guess. On another point I always had problems making a 1 and 1/2G work on the Yamaha basses but if they have, indeed, "fixed" the pipe on these I'd be curious to try one. :)
The concept of MSRP in general does seem strange; it's not the price anyone is going to pay, it's not even a target price, it's... some marketing gimmick? I dunno. I don't buy brand-new horns so it's not relevant to me, but whatever they're doing is apparently broadly in line with industry norms.

1.5-sized pieces work fine on my 613H, despite the insertion depth being slightly nonstandard.
Digidog
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Digidog »

WGWTR180 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm9K????
:horror:

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!
Welcome to visit my web store: https://www.danieleng.com/

Big Engband on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/30Vuft1 ... me3sZi8q-A
User avatar
Burgerbob
Posts: 4526
Joined: Mon Apr 23, 2018 8:10 pm
Location: LA
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Burgerbob »

Digidog wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am
WGWTR180 wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 3:44 pm9K????
:horror:

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!
That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.
Aidan Ritchie, LA area player and teacher
trombonedemon
Posts: 188
Joined: Mon Aug 06, 2018 7:25 pm
Location: NC

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by trombonedemon »

Burgerbob wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am
Digidog wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am

:horror:

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!
That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.
Courtois has always had a ridiculous retail price stamp. I saw one on Reverb for 2500 a bass that is, with Hagmans and an interesting looking tuning slide.
Conn 112 H w/bored out rotors w/heavyweight caps, Sterling Silver Edward's B3 and Shires B3 leadpipe w/62H slide. Long Island Brass Comp Dimensions 29.5 inner rim .323 backbore solid silver lefreque
Druidman
Posts: 81
Joined: Thu Jan 14, 2021 5:34 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Druidman »

trombonedemon wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:10 am
Burgerbob wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am

That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.
Courtois has always had a ridiculous retail price stamp. I saw one on Reverb for 2500 a bass that is, with Hagmans and an interesting looking tuning slide.
Most places sell their creation bass for 7.5-8K, which is excessive
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

Druidman wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 9:40 amMost places sell their creation bass for 7.5-8K, which is excessive
Yeah, the Courtois stuff is definitely up there, though so is Bach, and I suspect the Courtois build quality is definitely more deserving of the price tag.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
asmith
Posts: 73
Joined: Sat Dec 04, 2021 10:44 am
Location: Maryland

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by asmith »

MAP is $5689.99
As per usual if someone is expecting you to pay MSRP for a Yamaha, then shop somewhere else that has it in stock.
tbonesullivan
Posts: 1460
Joined: Tue Jul 02, 2019 9:06 am
Location: New Jersey
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by tbonesullivan »

asmith wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 11:15 am MAP is $5689.99
As per usual if someone is expecting you to pay MSRP for a Yamaha, then shop somewhere else that has it in stock.
If only it worked that way for cars during 2022. My bank account still hurts. Do they treat you like you just paid well over MSRP for a car? NOPE.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39, LT36B, 42BOF & 42T, King 2103 / 3b, Kanstul 1570CR & 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, YBL-822G & YBL-830, B&H Eb Tuba, Sterling 1056GHS Euphonium,
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
User avatar
hyperbolica
Posts: 2792
Joined: Fri Mar 23, 2018 7:31 am

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by hyperbolica »

Boneuphtoner wrote: Tue May 09, 2023 8:38 pm Looks like Tomer Maschkowski had the prototype a few months ago - some really fine playing here with his Dad:
Yeah, great sound and control. Nicely done.
User avatar
harrisonreed
Posts: 4488
Joined: Fri Aug 17, 2018 12:18 pm
Location: Fort Riley, Kansas
Contact:

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by harrisonreed »

tbonesullivan wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".
Because taping a mouthpiece so it sits 1/8 to 1/4 inch further out in the receiver makes the 830 play significantly better than letting the pipe eat the mouthpiece. The trigger range and low C is much less stuffy.

Even with that fix, the 830 is a very difficult and tiring bass to play, compared to, say, an Edwards 502. Especially the low C and B.
WGWTR180
Posts: 1211
Joined: Wed Sep 04, 2019 2:32 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by WGWTR180 »

harrisonreed wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 5:06 pm
tbonesullivan wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 6:43 am I'm always curious as to why people think something is "wrong" with the leadpipe used on the 613H and 830. Other trombones, such as the King Duo Gravis, were designed with a leadpipe that had a longer shank engagement as well, but no one claims that pipe needs "fixing".
Because taping a mouthpiece so it sits 1/8 to 1/4 inch further out in the receiver makes the 830 play significantly better than letting the pipe eat the mouthpiece. The trigger range and low C is much less stuffy.

Even with that fix, the 830 is a very difficult and tiring bass to play, compared to, say, an Edwards 502. Especially the low C and B.
Yes!!
Digidog
Posts: 237
Joined: Thu Dec 13, 2018 3:31 pm

Re: New Yamaha Bass Trombone Prototype

Post by Digidog »

Burgerbob wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 8:16 am
Digidog wrote: Wed May 10, 2023 7:46 am

:horror:

Holy mother of cows how prices have gone insane!
That's just MSRP. Please stop reacting like this haha. Courtois MSRP for the original New Yorker horns was like 12k.
Well I kind of did the Drama Queen stunt there....I'll admit that.

But since I'm on the lookout for an upper-tier medium bore horn, new or used, I can't help but gawk at the increases I see in both used and new horns. In just over a year, the price increase for some horns at Thomann, as a point of reference, is between (the equivalent of) $1200-3000. The later figure is for the Courtois AC551 basses, which went from slightly above €7000 to well over €10,000 (I also have to adjust for currency conversion losses, since Sweden doesn't have the Euro). Other brands, like Shires, seem to not have increased as much in prices, but nevertheless have increases of around $1500-2000.

I know you in the U.S. have, and use, the distinction between the different price quotas there are, but this is not - really - how markets work for us Europeans. Theoretically, we have room to wiggle and haggle for new products, but not in the sense and the practice you pursue across the Atlantic channel. So for me, stated and quoted prices are more firm and definitive than for you in the U.S.

Hence my drama..... :D
Welcome to visit my web store: https://www.danieleng.com/

Big Engband on Spotify: https://open.spotify.com/artist/30Vuft1 ... me3sZi8q-A
Post Reply

Return to “Instruments”