TromboneChat

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:41 am**

Title say it all……Just asking round for thoughts and what people have experience with this size. I really love the 11C size, seems to be in the Goldilocks zone.

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 5:55 am**

The best and most even sounding across the whole range 11c I’ve played is the Brassark/Reeves 11c, based on an old Bach NY.

There’s some great aspects of the MV 11cs I’ve played, especially in depth of sound and attacks, but they have a few more quirks than the Brassark and a less comfy rim for me.

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 6:24 am**

We have got great feedbacks on our MST STUDIO K NY N and K 11 N, both in the end related to Bach originals. Key differences are adapted rim profiles, minimal changes in cup and backbore as well as of course an adapted outer shape.

Let me know if you need more details.
In the end mouthpieces are of course personal preference. I personally play the K NY N on small bore (6h) and bass trumpet (with minimally enlarged bore) and the K 11 N typically on alto.

We are of course also selling/shipping internationally and some of our mouthpieces are available at Thomann.

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:19 am**

Ferguson Music (hornguys.com) has a Minick series 11C that they actually call "the ultimate 11C".

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:54 am**

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:19 am Ferguson Music (hornguys.com) has a Minick series 11C that they actually call "the ultimate 11C".

Also a great quality and playing mouthpiece! (Made by the great James New same as ours

)

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:19 pm**

My favorite ones I've tried are the Reeves 11c, a Minick small shank, and the Marcinkiewicz Charlie Loper pieces. I also really like the Kanstul CL45, which is also based off one of Charlie Loper's mouthpieces-- possibly the same one that the Marcinkiewicz is, but I'm not sure (I think the Rath MN11 might also be?) I've played some amazing MV 11cs too, but they tend to be quirkier than the above-listed models.

The Marcinkiewicz and the Kanstul feel the biggest. The Marc is the clearest and most nimble. The Minick has the fullest sound. It feels smaller though. The Reeves feels bigger than most 11cs but not quite as big as the Marc. It's very nimble and very even; it also sounds great but doesn't project quite as much as the others.

I don't like the Black 11c but love the 9c, which feels bigger than any 11c I've tried. It's amazingly nimble and transfers a lot of energy to the horn. I also love a Purviance 4*3 that I have that is shallower than an 11c but similarly-sized in the diameter to the others. I wouldn't call either of those an 11c-ish piece though.

That pretty much rounds out my favorite mouthpieces in this size. I would hesitate to call any of these the "ultimate" one because they are all so different from one another that one would need to get the one that does her/his/their job most effectively. I've used them all professionally. I use the Marcinkiewicz Loper currently.

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:28 pm**

MStarke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:54 am
tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:19 am Ferguson Music (hornguys.com) has a Minick series 11C that they actually call "the ultimate 11C".
Also a great quality and playing mouthpiece! (Made by the great James New same as ours )

Oh that's right! He made the CL45 too. Maybe you can ask Mr. New if he knows if the CL45 is the same mouthpiece as the Rath 11MN and Marcinkiewicz Loper.

Come to think of it, is one of your 11cs based off of Charlie's 11c?

I'm glad you are making new high quality pieces!!! I haven't tried yours yet but will look forward to it soon.

Posted: **Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:39 pm**

I'm also fond of the Marcinkiewicz ET3 "C Loper" - supposedly an adaptation of a Bach 11C (with a larger throat).
But I think that I prefer (most days) the Marcinkiewicz ET4 "Lloyd Ulyate" - allegedly an open-throated Bach 7C.
Marcinkiewicz makes very fine mouthpieces, that feel good on my face. (I know that Bach's 5.85mm throats are too small for me.) I'm satisfied with either of these - no longer looking for the elusive "ultimate!"

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2022 1:19 am**

TromboneMonkey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:28 pm
MStarke wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 7:54 am

Also a great quality and playing mouthpiece! (Made by the great James New same as ours )
Oh that's right! He made the CL45 too. Maybe you can ask Mr. New if he knows if the CL45 is the same mouthpiece as the Rath 11MN and Marcinkiewicz Loper.

Come to think of it, is one of your 11cs based off of Charlie's 11c? I'm glad you are making new high quality pieces!!! I haven't tried yours yet but will look forward to it soon.

If you are interested in the CL45:
The MST STUDIO M N is based on it, basically the "inner values" are the same, outside shape is different.
Actually the M N might receive an alternative soon as some customers have asked for a lighter version.
But the current version is also very well received!

Posted: **Thu Nov 10, 2022 3:59 am**

I forgot to mention that while on paper our M N (close to the CL45) is hardly bigger than the K NY N and K 11 N (which are as said close to a typical 11C), it does feel different due to its overall design. Cup and throat lead to a bigger/more open feel than the mentioned alternatives (including the Ferguson 11).

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:34 pm**

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:39 pm I'm also fond of the Marcinkiewicz ET3 "C Loper" - supposedly an adaptation of a Bach 11C (with a larger throat).
But I think that I prefer (most days) the Marcinkiewicz ET4 "Lloyd Ulyate" - allegedly an open-throated Bach 7C.
Marcinkiewicz makes very fine mouthpieces, that feel good on my face. (I know that Bach's 5.85mm throats are too small for me.) I'm satisfied with either of these - no longer looking for the elusive "ultimate!"

Yes I think “ultimate” is a poor choice of words on my behalf

. All good. I have a McDougall which I kind of like but feel like something is missing from it….might see if Loper or Ulyate comes up for sale sometime perhaps.

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:39 pm**

Posaunus wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 8:39 pm I'm also fond of the Marcinkiewicz ET3 "C Loper" - supposedly an adaptation of a Bach 11C (with a larger throat).
But I think that I prefer (most days) the Marcinkiewicz ET4 "Lloyd Ulyate" - allegedly an open-throated Bach 7C.
Marcinkiewicz makes very fine mouthpieces, that feel good on my face. (I know that Bach's 5.85mm throats are too small for me.) I'm satisfied with either of these - no longer looking for the elusive "ultimate!"

I have a bog standard Conn 11C which I keep coming back to, not that I have many small bore MPs to change around in….I find once I play in it for awhile a 7C feels heaps bigger but I like the air flow of the 7C more, but not the rim and cup…..maybe I just play and forget about gear stuff……always seems the better option

Posted: **Mon Nov 14, 2022 6:40 pm**

TromboneMonkey wrote: ↑Wed Nov 09, 2022 4:19 pm My favorite ones I've tried are the Reeves 11c, a Minick small shank, and the Marcinkiewicz Charlie Loper pieces. I also really like the Kanstul CL45, which is also based off one of Charlie Loper's mouthpieces-- possibly the same one that the Marcinkiewicz is, but I'm not sure (I think the Rath MN11 might also be?) I've played some amazing MV 11cs too, but they tend to be quirkier than the above-listed models.

The Marcinkiewicz and the Kanstul feel the biggest. The Marc is the clearest and most nimble. The Minick has the fullest sound. It feels smaller though. The Reeves feels bigger than most 11cs but not quite as big as the Marc. It's very nimble and very even; it also sounds great but doesn't project quite as much as the others.

I don't like the Black 11c but love the 9c, which feels bigger than any 11c I've tried. It's amazingly nimble and transfers a lot of energy to the horn. I also love a Purviance 4*3 that I have that is shallower than an 11c but similarly-sized in the diameter to the others. I wouldn't call either of those an 11c-ish piece though.

That pretty much rounds out my favorite mouthpieces in this size. I would hesitate to call any of these the "ultimate" one because they are all so different from one another that one would need to get the one that does her/his/their job most effectively. I've used them all professionally. I use the Marcinkiewicz Loper currently.

I have a bog standard Conn 11C which I keep coming back to, not that I have many small bore MPs to change around in….I find once I play in it for awhile a 7C feels heaps bigger but I like the air flow of the 7C more, but not the rim and cup…..maybe I just play and forget about gear stuff……always seems the better option

Posted: **Tue Nov 15, 2022 1:16 am**

One that looks good as a paperweight on my desk, because no mouthpiece that size is going anywhere near any of my instruments.

Posted: **Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:50 am**

The Ultimate 11C is a Holy Grail. They’re mostly based off of something that could be defined as Corporation, New York, and Mount Vernon, not to mention current production. The definition is unstable, random, and subject to chaos. The search is however worthy. Perhaps Harrison Ford may soon come out with his own line. But don’t get me wrong. My Mount Vernon 11C well served me Sunday night, even as I was running out of chops.

Posted: **Tue Nov 15, 2022 12:48 pm**

OneTon wrote: ↑Tue Nov 15, 2022 10:50 am The Ultimate 11C is a Holy Grail. They’re mostly based off of something that could be defined as Corporation, New York, and Mount Vernon, not to mention current production. The definition is unstable, random, and subject to chaos. The search is however worthy. Perhaps Harrison Ford may soon come out with his own line. But don’t get me wrong. My Mount Vernon 11C well served me Sunday night, even as I was running out of chops.

Maybe Indiana will also come out with the ultimate 7C along with it?

Were there ever any mouthpieces between those two?

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:27 am**

I just bought a Pickett custom 11cs M cup. Superbly comfortable and really makes the high range shine. Plays easy like my 6 1/2 AL with a touch more core to the sound.

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:52 am**

I have a Bach Corp NY 11C I'm not using if anyone needs it.

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:28 am**

officermayo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:52 am I have a Bach Corp NY 11C I'm not using if anyone needs it.

MP has been sold. Thanks to all who showed an interest.

Posted: **Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:55 am**

edfeingold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:27 am I just bought a Pickett custom 11cs M cup. Superbly comfortable and really makes the high range shine. Plays easy like my 6 1/2 AL with a touch more core to the sound.

i have take a look on the Pickett website. There i can only find a 11 M and a 11 L mouthpiece.
What means the cs ?

Posted: **Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:17 am**

officermayo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:28 am
officermayo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 7:52 am I have a Bach Corp NY 11C I'm not using if anyone needs it.
MP has been sold. Thanks to all who showed an interest.

I bought the mouthpiece from Officer Mayo - he shipped it quick and sold it to me for a good price!

I have a bad habit of hoarding old Bach 11Cs - I've got a stable of Mt Vernons, and now a few NY's (thanks Keith!). They're all uniformly *good* with a few great examples thrown in there. I think the 11C can be one of the most balanced mouthpieces for small bore playing, and the numerous examples of them made by different companies kind of highlight that. My personal favorites are a random Mt Vernon 11C I have, the Shires 11C, and the Ian McDougall Marcinkiewicz. I tend towards favoring a larger rim (25.2/25.3ish) on a snappy cup, and the 11C always seems to be a good candidate for this.

Posted: **Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:28 am**

ngrinder wrote: ↑Sat Nov 19, 2022 10:17 am
officermayo wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 10:28 am

MP has been sold. Thanks to all who showed an interest.
I bought the mouthpiece from Officer Mayo - he shipped it quick and sold it to me for a good price!

So glad you're happy with the mp!
Thanks for a quick and easy transaction.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:56 am**

The John Fedchock Pickett mouthpiece is based on JF's altered Bach 11C. I paly on an altered 11C with customized throat and skeletonized exterior. THap piece will be coming out thru HOUSER mouthpieces in implant grade stainless steel with a bronze throat and back bore sometime in 2023.

Posted: **Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:26 pm**

The Ferguson 11 is ridiculously good.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 3:25 am**

MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:26 pm The Ferguson 11 is ridiculously good.

So I’ve heard. Can’t find one secondhand though.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:14 am**

I’ve played on the Ferguson 11 C and wasn’t impressed. It just was a little dark and dead sounding for me.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:42 am**

MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:26 pm The Ferguson 11 is ridiculously good.

The rim is really comfy but it has a very sharp shoulder leading into the throat and plays with a very hissy/fuzzy sound, for me.

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 9:51 am**

Rusty wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:42 am
MalecHeermans wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 7:26 pm The Ferguson 11 is ridiculously good.
The rim is really comfy but it has a very sharp shoulder leading into the throat and plays with a very hissy/fuzzy sound, for me.

ssking2b wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 5:14 am I’ve played on the Ferguson 11 C and wasn’t impressed. It just was a little dark and dead sounding for me.

I guess this is why it's not all that productive to recommend to others your favorite mouthpiece. We all have different anatomies, and we all play differently; therefore we get different results.

I do know that Bach mouthpieces, though they work for many, are not the solution for me.

Was Sam Burtis (remember Sambutin?) right?

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:03 pm**

I don't really remember what Sam had to say. But I do know others who play the Ferguson piece and love it. I admit it felt very good, but as I said, for me it was a little dark and dead sounding. One size/shape/piece doesn't fit all. How lucky we are to have so many choices to try to lit our inner trombone player out!

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:11 pm**

ssking2b wrote: ↑Fri Dec 09, 2022 2:03 pm I don't really remember what Sam had to say.

I can't quote Sam, but his message was something like "Try everything. Play what works [for you]."

Posted: **Fri Dec 09, 2022 6:43 pm**

Sam definitely played that piece for some time.

Posted: **Sat Jan 14, 2023 6:08 am**

ssking2b wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:56 am The John Fedchock Pickett mouthpiece is based on JF's altered Bach 11C. I paly on an altered 11C with customized throat and skeletonized exterior. THap piece will be coming out thru HOUSER mouthpieces in implant grade stainless steel with a bronze throat and back bore sometime in 2023.

Last night, on a gig with Philip, I had the pleasure of playing his altered/skeletonized 11C which is slated to be produced by Houser this year. I was immediately blown away with the resonance, responsiveness and efficiency it provided across the entire register of the horn. He kindly let me play it the entire show. For my taste, over years of experience and experimentation Philip has created something magical. I look forward to buying one of these when they are released to the public.

Posted: **Sat Jan 14, 2023 3:46 pm**

Thanks, Erik! I will keep you and the folks here informed as we make the prototype tests. Mr. Houser is a fantastic craftsman, and I think we will be putting out something excellent. The prototype will be a 2 piece, implant grade stainless steel titanium h coated (black) cup/rim, and a bronze screw in back bore - skelitonized outsides so the weight is at the rim, not under the cup!

Last night I was the tuba player on the gig we did together! Erik always sounds great, and I’m very pleased he liked my piece,

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2023 11:16 am**

heinzgries wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 11:55 am
edfeingold wrote: ↑Wed Nov 16, 2022 1:27 am I just bought a Pickett custom 11cs M cup. Superbly comfortable and really makes the high range shine. Plays easy like my 6 1/2 AL with a touch more core to the sound.
i have take a look on the Pickett website. There i can only find a 11 M and a 11 L mouthpiece.
What means the cs ?

It is part of the Pickett Custom series, modular mouthpieces. The 11cs is a 0.970" in C (classic Bach style) rim (s for small bore). I went with the medium cup. They also offer D(deep) and S(shallow) cups in this rim size. There is a Lead cup for the 5-9 numbered rims.

Recognizing that mouthpieces are an individual fit, I would just say that it plays very comfortably for me, makes high range a breeze and has a slightly bright round sound with my chops. It is worthy of testing.

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:07 pm**

What make and model is your trombone that this mouthpiece makes high range a breeze, and what were your previous mouthpieces that you are comparing it to? Asking for a friend..

Posted: **Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:21 pm**

The Reeves-Brassark 11C is based on my best NY Bach 11C in my collection (out of around 10 or so NY11Cs). I chose this particular piece as an inspiration during our design and R&D phase not only for the wonderfully even and clear sound it produced but also because I thought the rim on this particular 11C was the most comfortable and uniform on the both the rim crown contour which is semi round and because I felt it had the appropriate amount of inner bite to give excellent steerability and control, of course YMMV.

Posted: **Sun Aug 20, 2023 1:49 pm**

ssking2b wrote: ↑Thu Dec 08, 2022 9:56 am The John Fedchock Pickett mouthpiece is based on JF's altered Bach 11C. I paly on an altered 11C with customized throat and skeletonized exterior. THap piece will be coming out thru HOUSER mouthpieces in implant grade stainless steel with a bronze throat and back bore sometime in 2023.

Any updates to this?

Posted: **Sun Aug 20, 2023 2:18 pm**

I like the Shires 11C. IS it the ultimate? No because everyone is different. And it's closer to a Bach 6 3/4C than to an 11C. But it works better in my alto than anything else I've tried!

Posted: **Sun Aug 20, 2023 3:25 pm**

slipmo wrote: ↑Tue Jan 17, 2023 4:21 pm The Reeves-Brassark 11C is based on my best NY Bach 11C in my collection (out of around 10 or so NY11Cs). I chose this particular piece as an inspiration during our design and R&D phase not only for the wonderfully even and clear sound it produced but also because I thought the rim on this particular 11C was the most comfortable and uniform on the both the rim crown contour which is semi round and because I felt it had the appropriate amount of inner bite to give excellent steerability and control, of course YMMV.

One of the most frustrating things about Bach mouthpieces is their variability. It seems that many "signature" mouthpieces are based on Bachs that have been somehow modified to make them play better. I've played a few Bachs that I like, but many are meh. Perhaps that's why I play mouthpieces from other manufacturers. MMV.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:27 am**

No real updates to the HOUSER version of my altered 11C. I am awaiting the prototype which I should have perhaps in September.

Posted: **Tue Aug 22, 2023 3:53 pm**

I`m mostly a Mount Vernon 7C player, however.. I keep trying to like the 11C size.
1) I`ve played the Ferguson 11C - It was sooooo physically light . I didn`t find the rim very comfortable.
2) I was given a Shires 11C and did not like that at all. 1) It wasn`t an 11C size at all . Felt more like a 6 3/4C
2) I couldn`t get it to slot at all. and very bright
3) The Brass Ark 11C , again was more like a 6 3/4C that a 11C. Way too big
4) The Best I found in that size (IMO) was a Mount Vernon Bach 11C with an opened up throat

Posted: **Wed Aug 23, 2023 5:54 pm**

ssking2b wrote: ↑Tue Aug 22, 2023 11:27 am No real updates to the HOUSER version of my altered 11C. I am awaiting the prototype which I should have perhaps in September.

Thank you!

TromboneChat

Ultimate 11C?……

Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……

Re: Ultimate 11C?……