TromboneChat

Can anyone tell me when Conn switched from string operated rotary valve to the mechanical linkage for the 88H and also when the GEN II and the open wrap 88HO was introduced?

Thanks

I HATE the new mechanical linkage. A local school bought 10 of these newer (2018-ish) 88H’s and they all are all clanky and noisy, and the trombones played okay. I heard tell, however, that the new CEO of Conn fired everyone and brought in his cronies. I tried a 2023 62H Bass bone and it played close to the old Elkharts (still had the mechanical linkage, however . . .)

vwmvwm wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 12:47 am I HATE the new mechanical linkage. A local school bought 10 of these newer (2018-ish) 88H’s and they all are all clanky and noisy, and the trombones played okay. I heard tell, however, that the new CEO of Conn fired everyone and brought in his cronies. I tried a 2023 62H Bass bone and it played close to the old Elkharts (still had the mechanical linkage, however . . .)

“Fired everyone” like, what? This is easily verifiably just false. It also wouldn’t make sense. Fired everyone in production? No, they had a strike, though that was a long time ago now. Fired the artist team? No, lots of the same guys still in those roles. Fired people that were responsible for what?

Weird,
Andy

I know this doesn't answer the initial question, but I have bought a new 88ht in I think 2021. It has not been mechanically perfect - some lightly audible scratching of the valve - but absolutely no problem. What I do not like about the current linkage is the design of the actual thumb actuator (what do you call that thing correctly?). It can come loose and the involved scres which connect it to the lever are very weak/vulnerable in my opinion. Best put it in the right position once and never touch it again.

MStarke wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:00 am What I do not like about the current linkage is the design of the actual thumb actuator (what do you call that thing correctly?). It can come loose and the involved scres which connect it to the lever are very weak/vulnerable in my opinion. Best put it in the right position once and never touch it again.

My first new, pro horn was/is an 88HO with that garbage thumb paddle - the set screws no longer securely retain the paddle on the shaft, causing sudden unexpected changes in the paddle position.

I keep the horn for sentimental reasons now, but don’t play it because of that paddle. Someday I may have it replaced, but it’s frustrating enough for me to swear off any Conn with that setup. Life is too short for that kind of thing.

vwmvwm wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 12:47 am I HATE the new mechanical linkage. A local school bought 10 of these newer (2018-ish) 88H’s and they all are all clanky and noisy, and the trombones played okay. I heard tell, however, that the new CEO of Conn fired everyone and brought in his cronies. I tried a 2023 62H Bass bone and it played close to the old Elkharts (still had the mechanical linkage, however . . .)

This is not something that happened. Conn production was moved from the Eastlake plant to the Elkhart plant about 5 years ago, and the general consensus is quality has suffered, but the CEO didn’t fire anyone. And who would these “cronies” be anyway?
As for the linkage, that has been around for close to 30 years.

You can get that reto-fitted to string linkage. Oberloh in Seattle can do it. Probably Osmun’s, too. I had an 88H with string linkage that I loved. I am not sure how it blows, but my Shires twin valve with string linkage (Yup) is lighting fast and smooth as 1951 Chevrolet column shift.

stewbones43 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 am Can anyone tell me when Conn switched from string operated rotary valve to the mechanical linkage for the 88H and also when the GEN II and the open wrap 88HO was introduced?

Thanks

I don't know when this happened but the Gen II thing was around the mid 90's. Probably when the mechanical linkage was introduced, too.

I had a 2005 88HTCL from Eastlake and the only issue with it was the curved F attachment brace. I needed to get that resoldered once. Miniballs worked perfectly. It and my 36H from the same period have the best slides in the land.

I think a lot of the production issues started after the move back to Elkhart.

bitbckt wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:43 am

MStarke wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 6:00 am What I do not like about the current linkage is the design of the actual thumb actuator (what do you call that thing correctly?). It can come loose and the involved scres which connect it to the lever are very weak/vulnerable in my opinion. Best put it in the right position once and never touch it again.

My first new, pro horn was/is an 88HO with that garbage thumb paddle - the set screws no longer securely retain the paddle on the shaft, causing sudden unexpected changes in the paddle position.

I keep the horn for sentimental reasons now, but don’t play it because of that paddle. Someday I may have it replaced, but it’s frustrating enough for me to swear off any Conn with that setup. Life is too short for that kind of thing.

I currently have two instruments with that setup. The mentioned 88htg and an 88ht with Greenhoe valve. At the moment they are both stable, so it's fine. I have actually considered replacing that thing or having it soldered so that it is fixed.
Other than that I am very happy with the instruments.

If you can figure out the thread there are a bunch of higher quality set screws / non-permanent thread lock that could help (my 88h has the string or I’d check)

Here’s my source for all things fastener related:
McMaster.com

I have a 2001 Conn 88HCL & the linkage works perfectly even after 23 years. The rotor is light (made of anodized aluminum), has a short throw, and is fast and quiet! As with any other linkage, you have to keep it lubed.

Re: Thumb Paddle set screws. The only time they came loose for me, I removed them, put a drop of Loctite Blue on each one, positioned the paddle where I wanted it & cranked on them until they wouldn't turn any more. I let it set for a day and haven't had the problem since. If you're sure you'll never want to move them again, use Loctite Red.

They have a Loctite (tm) product that stays put but is easily to break loose. Clear RTV silicone also works. Be care about getting that in any finished parts. The electrical RTV silicone is safer.

As the problem-solvers seem to be so keen to solve the problem without understanding it first, let me clarify: the shaft material is so soft - I would call it pot metal quality - that the screws have worn the groove out of shape such that they no longer retain the paddle from spinning. The lever either needs replacing or the whole works should be permanently fixed in place. The screws are fine and do not back out.

bitbckt wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 11:40 am As the problem-solvers seem to be so keen to solve the problem without understanding... The lever either needs replacing or the whole works should be permanently fixed in place. The screws are fine and do not back out.

The lever either needs replacing or the paddle should be fixed with solder, permanently in place.

harrisonreed wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 11:54 am The lever either needs replacing or the paddle should be fixed with solder, permanently in place.

You got it, boss.

vwmvwm wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 12:47 am I heard tell, however, that the new CEO of Conn fired everyone and brought in his cronies.

Vernon,
Don't believe everything that you"hear" - or read in the Internet.
In this case, what you heard was very likely a fabricated tale!

I also am really not a fan of the Conn mechanical trigger design. Having a paddle that can be adjusted back and forward at the expense of a strange angle? I get that you can move it back and forth, but they should honestly just take the 88HNV trigger and put it on everything. Putting two grub screws on a high torque joint like that is asking for trouble.

Only issue with my 88HCL after the adjustment period is that dang paddle. Thinking about having a local tech do a full linkage conversion to instrument innovations

vwmvwm wrote: Mon May 13, 2024 12:47 am I HATE the new mechanical linkage. A local school bought 10 of these newer (2018-ish) 88H’s and they all are all clanky and noisy, and the trombones played okay. I heard tell, however, that the new CEO of Conn fired everyone and brought in his cronies. I tried a 2023 62H Bass bone and it played close to the old Elkharts (still had the mechanical linkage, however . . .)

Proof, verification of "fired everyone"???? Many of us have "heard tell" many things these days.

HornboneandVocals wrote: Sun May 26, 2024 10:09 pm Only issue with my 88HCL after the adjustment period is that dang paddle. Thinking about having a local tech do a full linkage conversion to instrument innovations

Don't bother. The Instrument Innovations linkage and lever bridge are even more over-engineered. Find the spot where you'd like your paddle to be and have a tech solder it in place.

Back to the point :

stewbones43 wrote: Tue Sep 06, 2022 6:11 am Can anyone tell me when Conn switched from string operated rotary valve to the mechanical linkage for the 88H and also when the GEN II and the open wrap 88HO was introduced?

I went to the Frankfurt Muzik Messe in 1999, and the GEN II was there, with all the different slide flavors : SL2525, SL2547, etc... I don't remember the rotor linkage at the time...

Now, I own an older than GEN II, that is not an Abilene, 88H "o/w" (older engraving for "open wrap) that I suppose to be a UMI generation with the SN : 5 658049 (1995?), heavy bell (not an Abilene, by no means) that has a string linkage to the valve and that orangy epoxy lakker (typically UMI IIRC)

I also have a rather recent 88 HTO with the clear lakker, that has the mechanical linkage - that I dislike as well, really not that ergonomical for my hand... and there is a really strange sympathetic resonance of the bell around the A in the staff, contaminating all that partial (lack of projection from Bb to Gb - going down...)

Hope that helps...

I am pretty sure the Gen II horns started up in the late 90s. I have a mid-90's 88H with orang lacquer and the new bell engraving. But it doesn't have the newer King valve or mechanical linkage or the newer slide. It's a great player! And I agree that the mechanical linkage is terrible.

patmcf18 wrote: Sat May 25, 2024 8:44 am Re: Thumb Paddle set screws. The only time they came loose for me, I removed them, put a drop of Loctite Blue on each one, positioned the paddle where I wanted it & cranked on them until they wouldn't turn any more. I let it set for a day and haven't had the problem since. If you're sure you'll never want to move them again, use Loctite Red.

Lately, I've been using my 88HCL a lot more than I was using it. Anyway, the paddle came loose again... after about 22 years. I agree with the person that said the piece of meatal that the set screw tighten against (it has the groove in it) is very cheap metal. They should have use stainless steel with SS set screws with Loctite, or a similar setup. I'm going to have a tech. solder the paddle in place.