C.G. Conn Ltd. Elkhart Ind USA 4H SN197816. HELP

[MermaidQueen]

C.G. Conn Ltd. Elkhart Ind USA 4H SN197816. I bought this trombone at an estate sale a few weeks ago. The serial number on the trombone does not show up on any lists I have found online, thus far. The serial number was on the valve and the inner slide. They match. Has the Indian Head Logo. Beautiful piece, but I can't identify it. I have ebay store and would like to price it for sale. Anyone know anything about this trombone

[BGuttman]

Can you post a picture? The 4H should not have a valve (except for the water key).

[brassmedic]

Not sure what you mean by "the serial number doesn't show up". Each year on the chart corresponds to a range of serial numbers; the lowest number for that year is listed next to the year. That serial number would date it at 1922.

It's a Conn 4H trombone. They aren't played much these days because it's a very small bore size compared to what most players use now. I've never heard of a Conn Indian head logo. Can you post a picture?

[OneTon]

The Conn 4H doe not get played much anymore, especially when compared to everything else. It is a viable candidate for lead in big bands or small group jazz. It would also be viable for second trombone and most probably suitable for third trombone in a big band.

Why did it become somewhat obscure? Frank Rosolino played the Conn 6H. And presumably because Tommy Dorsey (and Si Zentner and a host of others) played some version of King 2B trombones. We can’t be entirely sure what Tommy Dorsey or Si Zentner actually walked out the factory door with. The legend stands that Glenn Miller had his section on Bach 6 trombones. Jimmy Dorsey may have had his trombones playing Bach trombones out of spite for his brother, Tommy. At 0.485 bore the Conn 4H is the same as the Bach 6 and similar to the King 2B at 0.481-0.491.

Like most Bach 6 trombones, most Conn 4H trombones had 7-inch brass bells and brass slides. Some Conn 4H trombones have lightweight brass slides. Some players think the older Conn 4H (and King 2B) trombones play “bigger” than newer King 2B trombones. Reference Keith Hilson at Schmitt Music on YouTube.

Despite their current obscurity, Conn sold many Conn 4H trombones and there are still a lot out there. There are many places to play the Conn 4H. Conn 4H owners can have a lot of fun with it.

[MermaidQueen]

Thank you so much for your responses. I really appreciate you all taking the time. Thank you for info on how to read the serial number charts, and yes, just a water key, not a valve, lol!
Thank You!
Trying to post pictures...I get an invalid extension message, so I tried this:

trombone.zip

[MermaidQueen]

Did pictures download OK? It is beautifully inscribed, with swirly decorations, and has a silver tone to the bell and other parts. Large dent at the loop end of the bell (sorry I don't know proper terminology). Thank You!

[OneTon]

I could not get it to load. I have never successfully uploaded a picture either.

[jorymil]

Thank you so much for your responses. I really appreciate you all taking the time. Thank you for info on how to read the serial number charts, and yes, just a water key, not a valve, lol!
Thank You!
Trying to post pictures...I get an invalid extension message, so I tried this:
trombone.zip

Looks like the image files you uploaded are in .jfif format; new one to me, so had to look it up. Since jfif is a container format for jpeg, try renaming your files with a .jpeg extension, and I bet life will be easier. I did this locally here on my phone, and can see the images just fine.

[jorymil]

I'd guess your horn might bring $200 on eBay: that's a pretty badly dented tuning slide, and friction-fit horns generally sell for less than something with a threaded receiver. Comparable horns in better shape can be had for not much more money, and small-bore horns like the 4H are usually a little too small to be in high demand.

That said, it's a neat old horn, and with a little restoration work, there is probably someone out there who wants one. The market for used trombones is not large, so it could be a week to find a buyer, or it could be nine months.

t12.jpeg

indian logo.jpeg

t11.jpeg

t6.jpeg

[MermaidQueen]

Thank you so much for posting pictures! I don't know where that extension came from, honestly. I was worried about the dent, it is pretty massive. But it's so old and pretty I was hoping for a bit more. But, I will take your word for it. I paid 85.00, so as long as I can get my money plus shipping back, I'm good. I called music stores in my area and the people I got on the phone were of no help. I really appreciate this.
Question: Should I clean it before trying to sell it?? I know with coins, you don't clean them, because they lose value. So, I wasn't sure if I should just leave it alone or clean it.
DE

[jorymil]

I wouldn't be worried about making your money back on this one. But with eBay and shipping fees, realistically, that's about where you're at. Maybe list it at $100 and see who bites? Pretty sure someone here would offer you that. Unless you want it for yourself to play, you're looking at a minimum of $150 to get the horn in working order, so you probably couldn't recoup that.

[greenbean]

Don't clean it. And don't expect much beyond $100. This is just not a very desirable horn these days.

[greenbean]

Unless you want to start playing...

I would put the counterweight on eBay separately. Two auctions starting at $.99 and see where they go. I bet the counterweight brings in $50 and the horn perhaps more...

[brassmedic]

Question: Should I clean it before trying to sell it?? I know with coins, you don't clean them, because they lose value. So, I wasn't sure if I should just leave it alone or clean it.
DE

I don't think trombones lose value by being restored. They don't really have the same kind of collector value that coins or other antiques do, unless it's Civil War era or earlier. People buy them to play, for the most part. If you wanted to polish the silver I don't think it would hurt anything. I guess the question would be if it's even worth your time to do so. You can see what these are selling for if you look at sold 4Hs on eBay. I always do that before I list anything. The engraving is kind of cool.