TromboneChat

Esteemed members of the forum.

I'm thinking of replacing my 70's King 3B at some point as it's seen better days though still very playable. It is a particularly good example and holds much sentimental value.

Someone suggested that rather than go down the rabbit hole of new .508 models from other companies (including boutique) that that the best thing to do is just get a new King 3B.

Does anyone have experiences with the new King 3B offerings?

Thanks in advance

I've played on a 70's 3B for the past 27 years. I've tried a couple of new ones at various times, and they felt similar but not quite as good. That said, I before I bought mine in the 90's, I also tried some older ones that didn't click with me. It's probably worth checking out a few to see how you like them.

I'm considering replacing the inner stockings on mine once the wear gets too bad; no other horn I've tried is quite the same.

I've been playing the same 3b since 1978, solid horn that has done everything I needed from marching band, concert band, community bands, special events, and so on. It's my #1 go-to in nearly every situation. I've had many 'bones come and go over the years, but that King 3B is a proven performer and a solid all-around horn. Worth every penny.

I briefly played through a few new ones from time to time over the last couple of years, and they don't feel the same. That feeling may be simply because I am so used the one that I've had for 40+ years and I know every tiny detail of it very intimately, so that any other instrument is "foreign". I didn't notice anything funny about the new 3B, just didn't "feel" like a 3B to me personally. Purely a subjective analysis.

I know that's probably not very helpful, but at the end of the day a musical instrument is a very personal thing to the musician and there is no way of knowing if it will be right for you unless you personally play through it for a while to get the feel of it.

If you like your existing 3B you might just want to do a refurbish depending on what "its seen better days" means. New set of inners and outers, which would be probably extreme, won't set you back all that much coming from King and that would essentially feel like a new horn.

We got two 2020 3BFs that play amazingly well. The tuning slides needed to be cleaned up a bit and some minor lubrication stuff, but they are great horns.

Biggest issue was sloppy soldering in the tuning slide on one of them -- you could see beads of it in the tubes. Did not affect how the things play though.

One of my very good friends is a Conn-selmer artist and plays a 2b from the 30’s or 40’s (I can never remember). When he got signed to CS they wanted him to try the new horns just to get his opinion on them and maybe he would walk away with one. They ended up measuring his horn and making a copy of it for him to try. He absolutely loves the horn. Obviously he has a little bit different treatment then the rest of us when buying a king trombone.

It’s worth nothing though that coming out of the factory the 2b slide has a weird clicking noise and he’s sent it back twice now and they can’t figure out why it’s happening or what it is. So the quality control there doesn’t seem great.

I have tried a few new 3bs and never really liked them over mine from the 70s, but after talking with my buddy it’s made me rethink getting a new horn.

But like others have mentioned, depending on what “seen better days” means that might not be a big deal to handle. I’ve replaced both inner tubes on my 3b and other then that it’s been a rockstar!

I agree with what some others have said about getting the horn "freshened up". I put off doing this on some older horns thinking that it was going to be expensive or take months. Quite the opposite. The worst horn I had need multiple dent removal, solder work, and a hole patched and it only took 2 weeks. It only cost me $280, a mere fraction of the cost of a new one and it looked and played 1000x better.

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 7:10 am If you like your existing 3B you might just want to do a refurbish depending on what "its seen better days" means. New set of inners and outers, which would be probably extreme, won't set you back all that much coming from King and that would essentially feel like a new horn.

I like my horn as it is, and it still has some years left in it.
Slide is still a 9/10
It has the yucky gold lacquer on it that they used in the 70's.
I don't want to remove the lacquer though.
It's already had some repairs to the hand grip.
A refurb may destroy it's playing characteristics which I like!

Just wanted to know what the new ones are like as I've not had the chance to play one yet.
Maybe more consistent? More even blow?
I've gotten used to any inconsistencies on mine through years of usage.
No harm in finding a better newer one
No harm in having two

I played a new 3B at NAMM 2020 that I would have no problems replacing my '70s 3Bs with if I had to. It played pretty much the same. If it came down to it and I had to buy a new instrument, it would be between a new 3B and a Courtois .508 Xtreme (which is basically a 3B).

Fidbone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:44 am It has the yucky gold lacquer on it that they used in the 70's.

Unpopular opinion: I actually quite like the look of those 70s/80s orange lacquer Kings.

soseggnchips wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:49 am

Fidbone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 8:44 am It has the yucky gold lacquer on it that they used in the 70's.

Unpopular opinion: I actually quite like the look of those 70s/80s orange lacquer Kings.

Anything would look better than your rusty Silversonic

Finetales wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 9:48 am I played a new 3B at NAMM 2020 that I would have no problems replacing my '70s 3Bs with if I had to. It played pretty much the same. If it came down to it and I had to buy a new instrument, it would be between a new 3B and a Courtois .508 Xtreme (which is basically a 3B).

This is good to hear, they must have made improvements over the last few years in order to keep up with the boutique and custom horns!

Today's Great 3B's will be tomorrows GREAT vintage 3B's

Yeah if thats the case makes sense. I'm not familiar enough with the modern ones to make an informed statement about them but everything I've heard is that Kings hvaen't really suffered in the same way other contemporary horns have from assembly issues and whatnot.

I'd certainly consider a new 3bf in silver plate: I'd be guaranteed a valve in good working order, which is getting harder on older 3bfs.

The following recently gave me pause: https://www.engelbert-schmid-horns.com/ ... pair-guide

I certainly don't want to remove corrosion blindly on the rotor faces: sounds like immersion cleaning is perhaps not the best practice.

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:27 am Yeah if thats the case makes sense. I'm not familiar enough with the modern ones to make an informed statement about them but everything I've heard is that Kings hvaen't really suffered in the same way other contemporary horns have from assembly issues and whatnot.

Death, taxes, and King 3Bs that just work.

Finetales wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 11:37 am

Matt K wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:27 am ... everything I've heard is that Kings hvaen't really suffered in the same way other contemporary horns have from assembly issues and whatnot.

Death, taxes, and King 3Bs that just work.

If you read the old H N White ads, they were very proud of reducing the number of soft solder points (expanded slide crooks, bell brace, etc)... they had a point.

I bought a brand new 3BG manufactured in March 2018 and it's a great horn.

Fidbone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:07 am Anything would look better than your rusty Silversonic

Err, I think you'll find that's "patina". Besides, it'll all be coming off soon...

Speaking of cosmetics though, the new Kings certainly look good in the photos - very reminiscent of the HN White-era horns with the 3-piece counterweight and the fancy bell engraving.

Fidbone wrote: ↑Wed Apr 27, 2022 10:07 am

Speaking of cosmetics though, the new Kings certainly look good in the photos - very reminiscent of the HN White-era horns with the 3-piece counterweight and the fancy bell engraving.

I agree, I love the look of the new King. The case is a nice touch as well.

I have a 1972 3B.....its in the shop getting its clean and adjust right now, and I plan on keeping it as long as I'm around. I think it depends on how much you like your old horn.....a good tech can breathe new life into most anything short of an absolute wreck.

.

The following recently gave me pause: https://www.engelbert-schmid-horns.com/ ... pair-guide

I certainly don't want to remove corrosion blindly on the rotor faces: sounds like immersion cleaning is perhaps not the best practice.

Note that of ALL the many manufacturers and repair technicians of brass instruments throughout the world, Schmid are THE ONLY ONES who suggest this!!

We all identify with a horn that we've grown up with and know all the "ins & outs" of what to expect when we breathe through it. It's a truly symbiotic relationship.
It reminds me of Kenny Douse, who was the saxophone soloist with the U.S. Marine Band many years ago. As was expected of wind players in the Marine Band, he was also a string player, a violinist, and was proficient enough that he later became a member of the National Symphony Orchestra. Whenever there was occasion for a saxophonist, Kenny was the first choice ---- and he was terrific ! It was the practice in those days when an instrumentalist retired from the Marine Band that they were able to take their instrument with them when they left. Surprisingly, when Kenny retired, he indicated his choice to take his favorite instrument with him in retirement, but was refused ! He was told that his instrument was far too valuable [a Stradivarius among Selmers !]and that the Marine Band would retain it to pass along to whomever became the next saxophone soloist in the ensemble. Of course, he accepted their decision. When the replacement saxophonist was presented with the "Stradivarius among Selmers" he played a few notes, commented on the "leaky, unplayable carcass" with which he'd been given to begin his career with the Marine Band, and flatly refused to use it !
My entire point is that your relationship with your King 3B is unique and only you can decide whether to replace its place in your life. It's a lot like the relationship with a spouse ---- special !
I have a King Duo Gravis SS that is as special as your 3B. IT knows ME better than I know myself ! Good luck in your decision ! Cheers !! Bob

Yes, old or new, the 3B is a great horn. I have a 1972 Concert, and I will never sell it....too many shows, too many memories. A new horn can be a wonderful acquisition, but an old one can be brought back to life. Trombones are relatively inexpensive to buy new (compared with other instruments), and respond well to reconditioning due to their inherent simplicity. Good luck on the decision!

I tried a new 3B at the LMS the other day along with an XO and a Yam 897. My fave of the 3.

*Update*
I decided not to replace my 3B but just have it tweaked.
I had the hand slide grip replaced with a thinner Jiggs brace.
The slide has been realigned etc
It’s good to go for many years more

Good move !!

I went back to try out the new 3B (2), including the centennial model, at the LMS.
Pretty but you couldn’t tell whether the slides were any good. Maybe a visit to the repair dept was necessary but both were nearly unplayable.