TromboneChat

Any experiences?

Is that the mode where some were made too long so they play a little flat? I seem to remember Bach with hangman’s having that issue.

I will say that one of the best basses I’ve played was a Hagmann Bach, but it was a conversion from a Rath

Matt K wrote: Fri Nov 19, 2021 9:42 pm Is that the mode where some were made too long so they play a little flat?

They were certainly made this way for a long time, I'm not sure if it's been changed.

Here's comparisons with two "standard length" 50 bell sections with a stock 50A3

My daily driver is a Bach 50 with Hagmann valves, but put together by Mr. Hagmanns technician. So mostly the same parts as a 50A.

I have yet to play a better instrument to fill the role of a "big bass trombone".

I bought a 50A3 about a month ago. I made sure to bring a tuner and confirm it was built so it's a bit sharp with the tuning slide all the way in. Indeed, all is good. The Hagmann valves are pretty great, both mechanically and for blowing feel/sound. The slide is excellent.

From the pictures Burgerbob posted, it looks like they would need to pretty much eliminate the gooseneck to get the length right. I wonder if they were just lazy (Bach? NEVER) and reused the gooseneck from the 50BO3, even though the Hagmann valve is significantly longer than the rotary valves Bach uses. Or maybe those are the parts that Hagmann supplies, and they just don't bother to modify them.

I believe modern ones just have shortened tuning slide legs and receivers. This solves some issues, but still puts the bell much closer to the face than a "normal" 50.

I have played exactly one 50A3, owned by a college friend, and it was fantastic - one of the top 3 best Bach bass trombones I've ever played.

I played a 50a3 at a show one year. Really liked it. I'm not sure how I feel about the valves themselves in terms of mechanical maintenance, since I've never personally disassembled/reassembled one, but it played nicely. I didn't like the big bulky mass right at the neck, but the sound and feel were great.

I'm not sure that I liked it because of the valves, as I've played 50b3 and 50b2 that I've liked as well. At that show I was testing horns to see what the various valves felt like, and while there were some things about axials that seemed desirable on paper, I wasn't able to make peace with them. To me (a rotor player) the hagmans felt very good. Maybe as good or better than large rotors like Kanstul CR, although I have other problems with the Kanstuls.

hyperbolica wrote: Fri Sep 02, 2022 8:03 amMaybe as good or better than large rotors like Kanstul CR, although I have other problems with the Kanstuls.

I've played on Hagmanns on Rath both tenor and bass models and really liked how they played. I get on pretty well with standard valves as well but I'm intrigued as to what problems you've had with Kanstuls?

BoomtownRath wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:03 am ... but I'm intrigued as to what problems you've had with Kanstuls?

I think the problems I've had with the Kanstul valves are body chemistry related. Valves seizing up. I didn't play the Hagmanns long term, so I don't know if the same thing would happen with them.

hyperbolica wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 4:40 am

BoomtownRath wrote: Sat Sep 03, 2022 2:03 am ... but I'm intrigued as to what problems you've had with Kanstuls?

I think the problems I've had with the Kanstul valves are body chemistry related. Valves seizing up. I didn't play the Hagmanns long term, so I don't know if the same thing would happen with them.

Some of the Kanstul valves were not made very well. When the valve core halves were brazed to the tubing, they weren’t always precise, resulting in the halves being slightly offset from each other (kind of like stacking a set of coasters with marbles in between). I’m guessing it was a problem with manufacturing a brazed valve core by hand compared to a machined core.