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similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 3:30 am
by Jose999
Hi folks.
I love my bach 5gl mouthpiece and the slightly shallow cup compared to the standar 5g but the sharp rim shape is sometimes a bit uncomfortable for me, also I think a slightly bigger rim size can be good for me, not too much big (between 25,5mm-25,65mm) I am open to sugestions, thanks!
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:07 am
by PaulT
The Yamaha 51 is "roughly similar/often compared" to the Bach 5G.
With the same rim and bore size as their 51, Yamaha offers the 51C4 (slightly shallower cup than the 51) and the 51B (slightly shallower than the 51C).
I am not familiar with the Bach 5gl. But if it is a 5G with a shallower cup, my guess is either the Yamaha 51C or the 51B may play pretty close to the 5gl for you and might offer a different rim feel.
Schilke also has a 51 series that is "roughly similar/often compared" to the Bach G, the Schilke 51, 51C, 51B (progressively shallower cups). They are well thought of.
I picked up a Schilke 51C and compared it to my Yamaha 51C. I did not care for it. Compared to the Yamaha 51C , the Schilke 51C is a little bigger and a good bit heavier. Playing a Schilke 51C will not tell you what playing a Yamaha 51C is like, and visa versa. The two share a numbering system, but, they have a different feel and quality.
You will only know by playing. But, the Yamaha 51C and 51B may be worth a try. They won't offer a wider rim than a Bach 5GL, but they may offer the feel you like while providing a shallower cup than a standard Bach 5G.
(The Yamaha 51B is a really wonderful mouthpiece)
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:43 am
by Bach5G
5GL - Copied from Mark Lawrence’s MV 5G. Cup is medium deep compared to a standard 5G.
The Schilke 51 would be a little bigger than the Yam 51.
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 12:55 pm
by CalgaryTbone
There's a Schilke 51C4 for sale on the classifieds. That would be in the same size range. Different rim (flat shape). An older 5G might be quite similar in depth, with a different rim profile, but older Bach mouthpieces are notoriously different from one another. A Wick 5BL might be another mouthpiece to check out.
Jim Scott
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 4:57 pm
by Tbone00
PaulT wrote: ↑Tue Mar 09, 2021 11:07 am
The Yamaha 51 is "roughly similar/often compared" to the Bach 5G.
With the same rim and bore size as their 51, Yamaha offers the 51C4 (slightly shallower cup than the 51) and the 51B (slightly shallower than the 51C).
I am not familiar with the Bach 5gl. But if it is a 5G with a shallower cup, my guess is either the Yamaha 51C or the 51B may play pretty close to the 5gl for you and might offer a different rim feel.
Schilke also has a 51 series that is "roughly similar/often compared" to the Bach G, the Schilke 51, 51C, 51B (progressively shallower cups). They are well thought of.
I picked up a Schilke 51C and compared it to my Yamaha 51C. I did not care for it all. I gave it a fair trial, but time did not improve my reaction to it. Compared to the Yamaha 51C , the Schilke 51C is much heavier and, for me, was lifeless (less treble energy?). But, someone else might have the opposite reaction. The only point here is, playing a Schilke 51C will not tell you what playing a Yamaha 51C is like, and visa versa. The two share a numbering system, but, they have a different feel and quality.
You will only know by playing. But, the Yamaha 51C and 51B may be worth a try. They won't offer a wider rim than a Bach 5GL, but they may offer the feel you like while providing a shallower cup than a standard Bach 5G.
(The Yamaha 51B is a really wonderful mouthpiece)
yamaha 51 is 25,25mm inner rim and bach 5g is 25,5mm
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Tue Mar 09, 2021 5:10 pm
by Tbone00
Maybe you can find what you are looking for in Doug Elliott stuff.
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Wed Mar 10, 2021 6:01 am
by dukesboneman
I find the Schilke 51 series to be a wonderful choice.
The 51C4 is my go to on my 42BO.
If you can find one , a Giardinelli Symphony T is similar, same with a Conn Remington.
Check out the websites for Warburton, Pickett, Doug Elliott, Hammond, etc....
Make yourself more familiar with what is available
The Mouthpiece Express is a good resource
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:06 am
by Nobbi
It's worth looking into the JK (Klier) mouthpieces ... I did and never had a better feeling.
This brought me after over 40 years of playing Bach MP's to the point to sell them all.
On my King 5b I am running a JK Exclusive 5B and on the Lawler a 6B or 7F, depending on the genre I play.
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 4:23 am
by Ted
Nobbi wrote: ↑Thu Mar 11, 2021 1:06 am
It's worth looking into the JK (Klier) mouthpieces ... I did and never had a better feeling.
This brought me after over 40 years of playing Bach MP's to the point to sell them all.
On my King 5b I am running a JK Exclusive 5B and on the Lawler a 6B or 7F, depending on the genre I play.
Nobbi, Can you make a rough comparison of the cup depths of the JK to Yamaha/Bach
Example: "Deep (B)" is roughly a G-Bach cup?
https://www.jk-klier.de/en/mouthpieces/ ... n#trombone
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:25 am
by Nobbi
Ted, I probably can not since I learned in another thread that Bach's obviously never have been standardized.
Maybe this helps:
https://mouthpieceexpress.com/catalog/fox-charts.php
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 5:54 am
by Ted
Yes, I looked at that one, but that's only for the width. Since I'm after the 6-series, how deep is the 6B?
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 6:37 am
by Nobbi
I have the JK 6B right in front of me ... 26.6mm ... from the top of the rim to the start of the throat.
Re: similar to bach 5gl
Posted: Thu Mar 11, 2021 2:34 pm
by GabrielRice
I had a 5GL in my possession for a while and gave it to a student. As far as I could tell, it was very much like a standard 5G but with maybe a little shallower cup and a smaller throat. Maybe. Essentially somewhere between a 5GS and a 5G.
The student I gave it to completely clicked with it, and it was the right move from her 6-1/2AL to deepen the sound without losing her ease of response.
The Yamaha 51 - sometimes labeled 51L when it's large shank - is somewhat similar.
You might also try a Benge or Conn Marcellus mouthpiece, which I think is somewhat similar and might have just a little more room at the inner rim diameter.
Those two are vey inexpensive mouthpieces. I see them used for as little as $25-35.
A bigger investment would be a mouthpiece from Doug Elliott -
http://www.dougelliottmouthpieces.com/tenortrb.html - in his system you can try keeping the cup the same and expanding the rim diameter a little at a time to discover what really works best. I would recommend starting in the LT series with a 101 rim, G cup, G8 shank. If you need a little more room in the rim, try a 102. But talk to Doug. He knows what he's doing.