TromboneChat

I’ve gotten a chuckle reading about under-rated, over-rated, least-attractive, never-buy list horns etc.

I’m kind of curious if you think back, what are your top most FUN to play horns. Since I’m back into playing for the pure enjoyment of it, I feel like what I’m looking for in a horn is somewhat different from years past.

My list is actually not going to be super complete because for two of them the details are olllld memories....and I may very well be forgetting something. That said, I’m positive about #1 and #2.

1. Absence typically makes the heart grow fonder, but in this case it’s my current daily player. My very nice condition vintage 88H had a lot of memories, but hands down my utility Cleveland 605F is the most fun to play of any horn I’ve ever owned. For yeeeears I pined for a single-rotor .562 but it turns out I unknowingly wanted to go the extreme other direction. I also have a nickel tempo bell section for it too, but convincing me to stop with the F section is nearly impossible. Everything about it feels right - especially the physical balance. I have added a weighted tuning slide for when I’m using my Silent Brass on the F section.

2. 1914 Conn 4-valve, front action silver (though silver wash bell sadly) euph. Back in the day I could rip on that thing. My pedal rage on that was literally no different than my middle rage. High range was dialed in too, but I felt like I could have gone another half octave lower had the notes been there. It was perhaps the only thing I ever did that truly impressed my tuba/euph professor (there were some very talented folks my same year that overshadowed me by miles). I don’t even recall which note he asked tentatively if I could hit and my tone was so full his eyes bugged out and then I went at least another 5+ more notes until I ran out of valves. That would be for me the horn that got away. This one I bought from Witchita Brass - and it was Brian Setzers before me.

3. Super, super hazy on this one. I don’t recall where I bought it, when or how I sold it, etc. but for 1-2 years I had a - I think - ~.540 (slightly under .547 as I recall) Huttl straight tenor. And I feel pretty strongly it had a solid nickel bell. In fact if you told me it was possible the entire bell section was solid nickel that sounds about right. It was not the easiest to play - slotting was tricky - but it was a blast. I distinctly recall there was an arrangement the jazz group would end on and I was supposed to knock out your run of the mill Db above the staff but being a young buck back then was usually able to consistently play up an octave on command...but at the end of a long concert, at the end of the final piece, coming only 1-2 bars out of my solo a managed to blow out my lip in two performances in a row - struggling stubbornly to ultimately squeeze out a resounding...high C just below...sigh. lol. It was me, not the horn - but cannot help but wish you could reach for a .485 for that last solo when you’re exhausted :p



So, based purely on fun and enjoyment, what’s your Top 3?

Cheers

1) my (possibly) czech 4 valve (converted from 3) rotary Eb Bass Trumpet. it's beat up beyond belief and i mainly use it with a bassoon reed. i love it so much

2) an old besson four valve compensating euphonium from the 70s. such a sweet sound! wasn't like a modern euphonium tank - it had character (and the bad intonation to prove it!)

3) an elkhart conn 88h i played once at dillon's that was the only horn that ever made my friends snap their heads around to see who was playing lol

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:00 pm 1) my (possibly) czech 4 valve (converted from 3) rotary Eb Bass Trumpet. it's beat up beyond belief and i mainly use it with a bassoon reed. i love it so much

2) an old besson four valve compensating euphonium from the 70s. such a sweet sound! wasn't like a modern euphonium tank - it had character (and the bad intonation to prove it!)

3) an elkhart conn 88h i played once at dillon's that was the only horn that ever made my friends snap their heads around to see who was playing lol

I love everything about all three of these!

I started doubling on euph literally two days before a Tuba Christmas my sophomore year of high school. To this day when I play euph or valve trombone I am mentally convert sheet music to trombone slide position to fingerings. Our school had two beat up Holton Euphs and a band director who was a sax player freshnout of college. So he certainly tried but didn’t have a whole lot to offer on the euph front. Then I got into the music program and these folks are rolling up with 3+1 compensating Besson/Wilson/Yamaha and I’m like “hey, y’all mind if I point my bell the other way with my ancient Conn” :p. I shortly after bought a non-compensating Besson I really liked. They make a great horn, but I do recall a whole lot of fussing with tuning slides while playing on the folks with the comp Bessons.




But are you serious about using a reed on you #1?

Cheers

1) Bach 39 alto that my old teacher had. That thing danced, such a wonderfully bright true alto sound, not like some of the bigger altos that (to my ear at least) feel like tenors with unfamiliar slide positions.

2) My Holton 180, my main daily driver since 2005. Every time I pick it up again after playing anything else it feels like coming home. So comfortable. I've played other basses that were prettier, or better ergonomically, or had more useful valve configurations, but none that quite feel right the way the Holton does.

3) My (1960s, euro-shank) Besson euphonium, has that great characteristic British euph sound of the time period. The intonation is quite good too - compensating 3 valve system is the theoretically optimal configuration, and this one lives up to the math.

2 and 3 have earned their lifetime slots in my stable. My tenor trombones are nice but I'm not attached to them, would be just as happy swapping them out for whatever else pops up and looks interesting.

1. Not so much a horn, as a valve set... Stainless Thayers built by Brasslab. I was playing on a Trubore setup with Bach bell at the time and really wasn't satisfied with it, so I went to Brassark and tried some horns. Within ONE note I decided it would be the next instrument I owned. I almost didn't sleep that night, dreaming about the new horn. Turns out the valves were leaky as all get out (F below the staff stopped centering at all), so I had Benn Hansson work his magic over the course of 6 grueling hours of removing material. Afterwards it was like a new, even better instrument. I ended up using an Edwards dual bore slide and either of my 50 bells... that setup was awesome. Monstrous low Cs. Probably shouldn't have sold that setup... not exactly sure why I did, now. I did my master's recital and won a job on it. With my playing now... Ok, stop thinking about it. It's gone!

2. I can't remember how, but I ended up getting a Corp 50B with a Shires lever in undergrad. Just a single. It was so good that I ended up listing my Minick Holton 180 within a couple weeks! I used it for a year of college and kept it for a while. I think I traded it for something, I wish I knew where it ended up. I improved more on that instrument, especially sound-wise, than I had in the previous 4 or 5 years. I recently had another Corp 50B that was pretty good, but at least in my memory it didn't hold a candle to this first one.

3. My current 42B (early '00s manufacture) with acid bleed all around the rim, clanky linkage, missing lacquer everywhere and a rotted '90s slide really itches a scratch. It makes this wide, clear sound with seemingly little effort. It glues notes together. The high range sings. The low range has so much core. Part of me wants to hack it up and put a different valve on because the rotor isn't all that great, but then I play it and I'm not sure again...

oh yeah - did my first album and everything on it. I'm proud of it in it's own way, it sounds like ripping sheet metal apart, and most of my friends hate it!

if you're curious and just need to hear some nonsense, have at it but be forewarned!
https://soundcloud.com/williamlangtromb ... ng-rending

olivegreenink wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:18 pm

WilliamLang wrote: ↑Tue Jan 19, 2021 10:00 pm
But are you serious about using a reed on you #1?

Cheers

also - i love this thread and can't wait to hear other people chime in

My 3BF silver sonic is butt ugly but a joy to play. So fun!

My T396A, at least with how I've got the thing wrangled, is also pure joy.

It took fourteen years, and lots of little, inexpensive tweaks, and my 36H is extremely fun to play. Finding the right mouthpiece took forever. I'm happy because comparing it to the Shires Eb/Bb alto I've gotten to try, it's just as easy to play, and nearly as in tune with itself. The Shires does sound nicer. It may be the nicest sounding trombone over every played, and I've tried one twice now.

The Getzen whatever model I have at work, which is pretty similar to an 88H, is also really fun to play. Maybe I should play it more often.

Pretty much every horn I've got feels fun to me.

1. My pre-WWI Couesnon flugelhorn, bought at DJ's funnily enough. It badly needs a full restoration which will likely happen soon, but even in its current state it is so addicting to play. The most dark, smoky flugel sound you've ever heard...yet it can be pushed to wail over a rock band if need be. It's my easily my favorite instrument for improvising on, and it awakens an energy in my playing that's absent with any other instrument.

2. My 1969 Conn 16E mellophonium. Is it ridiculous? Yes. Is it absurdly hard to play? Very much so. But more than once it's been my "desert island instrument" pick when asked. I love it so much and I take absolutely any chance I can get to play it.

3. A straight Selmer Largo, also bought at DJ's. It turned out to be very difficult (and unfun) to play in an ensemble so I eventually sold it on, but when I bought it I was so addicted to its lovely velvety sound that I had to have it over what probably would have been a much more useful instrument (a Holton TR-156 with a Bach leadpipe that instantly made my concept of the perfect principal trombone sound with zero effort...that was a fun horn too). If my career involved being a classical tenor trombone soloist in any way I would have held onto it forever. Had a magic that the other Largo and Bolero there completely lacked.

I've owned and tried a lot of really fun horns though...I could come up with a lot more than a top 3!

Fun thread and good fun thinking of the horns that passed through so here is my attempt at a top 3:

Oh man... where do I start!

#1: Thein Universal single valve bass trombone.
I love single valve bass trombones and this is the best one I had so far. It was so easy to play, had that great symphonic bass trombone sound built in and everything... man... great horn. If one day I sell all my stuff and concentrate on one single horn, I think I may go and see the Thein brothers.
horn porn: https://swisstbone.com/thein-universal-bass-trombone/

#2: Rath R3F with gold brass bell, .525/.547 slide, Rotax valve
I just got this baby last week and it is in need of some repairs, but this horn rocks. It can be played with a large bore leadpipe and a small bore leadpipe AND it is convertible to a straight horn. So it's the versatility king! With th large bore pipe it can sound dark and big like a Bach 42 but you can also really easily make it sound clear and ringing. I could use this as a principal horn in a symphony with no problem. BONUS: It takes much less work than a "true" large bore.
With the small shank leadpipe it just becomes a really versatile small bore - medium bore horn. Don't have much use for that kind of horns right now. But I could absolutely imagine using that combo in a rock band or something like that.

#3: Sorry, I will cheat here and pick a horn I didn't actually play yet. It's a Bach 45/Conn 60h style Frankenbone someone is building for me right now. More on this later. But I sense that this horn will be great fun!


I thought hard about a .547 large bore that was fun to play. But with all the exemplaries I tried, I just can't find one. Yes, I had - and still have - awesome vintage Bach 42's, Elkhart Conn's etc. I played something like 15 Rath R4 setups, can't remember how many Shires large bore setups etc etc.
AND it's clearly the style of trombone I play the most - virtually 90% of my practice is on a Bach 42 style trombone. But I have yet to find one that I would define as "fun" to play. Maybe it's just me, maybe that size just doesn't fit me...

I`ve been lucky to have some really incredible horns.
1) a 1928 Satin Silver Conn Eb Tuba. The sound is velvety and smooth. Effortless to play
2) I have a 42BO - ugly BUT Wow ! Raw Brass with an Olsen Valve. It is soooooo easy and Fun to play
3) an Lt12G w a Kanstul W6 leadpipe. This is/was my daily horn for years
4) My latest toy - a Bach Lt8 w/ a 1965 Bach Yellow 12 Bell. This is soo much fun . I`m surprised how dark it sounds considering it`s bore size. I can play this horn all day long

Fortunately, I've had some good friends.

1) I played a friend's MV 36 straight a long time ago, and that had to be some of the most fun I've had on a trombone. Easy to play, even all the way up.

2) A different friend had a Minick 100h, and it opened up a whole new world for me with small bores, always looking to reproduce that feeling of the Minick.

3) Yet a different friend has a pair of NY Bach 6, and that turned me on to a Conn 24h which was more my speed. The 24h has a huge sound for its size, and a crazy high range.

I find all of my horns to be fun to play, honestly. My daily driver is a Shires New York (beautiful tone), and for jazz my 1950's 2b. But the ones that I will focus on here are the ones that don't get out as often:
- An old beat-to-crap Yamaha 682. It's been through so much that it now has a really bright tone, but that makes it fit well in a pop horn section.
- My old Yamaha 321 euphonium. It's the first horn that I ever owned, and I still use it today to teach lessons on. I have been known to bring it on jazz gigs occasionally, sort of like the fluegelhorn to my trombone...
- I haven't played this in a while because it needs service, but I have a lot of fun playing my Akai EVI. This isn't an EWI, but a dedicated wind controller based on trumpet fingerings. Looks kind of like a bug sprayer... I have a couple of analog synths that I connect it to, it can create some fat sounds.

So a lot of my horns are "budget", but that doesn't stop me from anything. I like all the ones I play regularly, but if I feel like messing around, I normally go to these.

1. I have a Conn 18H director, with a coprion bell. With a Conn 3, it can peel paint off of the back wall, and it's extremely cheap because it's a student horn. I can't wait to play lead on it (but everyone keeps having me play bass). My 77H wasn't bad, but I like this one better, I feel like it's easier to get the sound I want, and I feel better about this horn than a King 2B I tried at Midwest Clinic a few years ago. =

2. I also have a Reynolds bell-front baritone that plays a lot better than you would expect. I don't know why, it was a school system beater, but it actually produces a rather good tone and slots alright. It looks absolutely horrendous, but it plays pretty well.

3. I also have a rather craptastic Elkhorn by Getzen valve trombone. It's not great, but while recording for a band called "Ass Machine", it's fun to do all of the fancy stuff with valves that makes you sound way cooler than you actually are.

4. My trumpet is awful. It's an off-brand "American Diplomat", made in Germany, with a leaky valve section, and a bell bent upwards Dizzy-style. It is easily the worst instrument I have ever played, and I think it's absolutely hilarious. The water keys are held down with masking tape, and the mouthpiece that came with it was about the size of a 12C. For trumpet.

Finally, I would like to give a shout-out to my melodica, recorder, slide whistle, and didgeridoo. I'm missing a lot of my horns because I left them home for school.

My Bach 16B frankenhorn. Some previous owner put a 36 valve onto the 16's bell section but to be honest it's great. Feels fun and zippy like my straight 16Ms, but has the versatility with the trigger and the mass to the sound to be usable beyond just jazzy things.

Second place would be my Bach 9. Effortless high range, fat sound, so fun. I didn't have a reason to play it outside of the practice room even pre Covid, but it never fails to put a smile on my face.

My favs so far are: Bach 36LT, Shires vintage Elkhart, Yamaha YBL622G, Yamaha 632S Euphonium and Boosey E flat tuba.

Single bass- Williams 10
Double valve bass- Duo Gravis Silver Sonic
Small tenor- Williams 6
Medium tenor- Williams 9
Large tenor- Bach 42BO that plays extremely well.

Honorable mention for the pBone.
Despite its toyish good looks, and Itchy & Scratchy slide, I find it quite fun to play once in awhile.
Plus it is a nice respite from holding up a 1960's Reynolds tank.

Great question!

The first horn that springs to mind is my Bach bass trumpet. Maybe it's because my expectations are a little lower on that horn, but it's just such a hoot to play, requires little effort, and is such a change of pace from the ergonomics and effort required to play trombone.

Andrew

I have a 1977 Yamaha YEP-321S that my parents bought for me when euphonium was my primary instrument in high school. When I switched to trombone as my primary, I kept it and used it for quite a few tenor tuba solos in my college days......Mahler 7, Bydlo in Mussorgsky's Pictures, etc.... It served me very well, but the sound was typical for the YEP-321....a little bright.

Fast forward to the 1990s....my primary euphonium was a rebuilt 1960's Besson, but I still played the YEP-321S occasionally. In 1994, I was heart-broken to discover that the YEP-321S leadpipe had red rot. I went to a music store and ordered a replacement leadpipe/receiver in silver. I waited several weeks for the leadpipe. When it arrived, it was the wrong part.....they accidentally ordered a leadpipe for a YEP-621S. I didn't even know what a YEP-621S was! Apparently, it was a non-compensating 3 + 1, Bass shank mouthpiece model that was only offered in the USA for a couple of years. It might still be available in Europe. The YEP-621 leadpipe was identical in shape and contour to the YEP-321, but it had the bass shank receiver and the entire leadpipe was more open. I decided to keep the mistakenly-ordered leadpipe.

When I had it installed on my horn, it was incredible! The horn sounded richer/darker, it sang with the greatest of ease and was extremely nimble. I almost feel guilty playing on that instrument now, because it is not work.......it is all fun and games! I have some bass trombone and tuba friends who like to borrow it when they have gigs that require a euphonium. They love it because it takes almost zero time to adjust to it.....the horn just plays itself!

I bought a vintage King Tempo from DJ a while back, one of the ones with the curved brace and nickel bell. That horn just sings. Every time I pick it up, it’s a joy to play. It just makes playing feel effortless.

Most fun horns for me to play:

1.) Olds Compact Marching Valve Trombone, aka Flugabone. I’ve had it modified a bit and made screwbell to fit in a flat case or a backpack. Can take it anywhere, sounds great, love playing valves. Always play this horn to write parts and get ideas and sketches out. This and my Bach LT36BG are my desert island horns.

2.) Minick .500 I got a few months ago. Pure, resonant horn. As light as an Urbie green, but solid like a Bach with LT Slide, Conn presence, a really cool blend. I’ve struggled to find a solid .500 concept with my style of playing for many years, but this horn is a joy to play everyday, I just can’t put it down.

3.) Inderbinen trombone- .500-.525 carbon fiber slide, 8 inch bell. Super responsive and open. It is really, really easy to play. Also has a Hagmann valve and a brass outer slide. Powerful low range. Tone is beautiful, but it’s own thing. Almost wooden, very unique. Kind of reminds me of a Williams 8 with more efficient specs.

Honorable mentions: my late 19th century Missenharter Ballad Horn, plays in Db with a trombone mouthpiece. Mellow, soulful, mid-range horn. Olds Recording bones- every one I pick up makes me smile when I play!

This is a great thread!!! My most fun horns are the ones I've poured blood, sweat, and tears into:

1) Conn 6H c.1956 - what looked great on eBay arrived not-so-great. I used boiling water to strip the bell of a sloppy, thick, and just plain BAD re-lacquer job; the bell developed a beautiful oil slick patina in the process and really rings now! The original slide w/ bronze outers is fun but severe Conn wear is a "drag", so I just finished putting together a lightweight replacement slide by pulling the leadpipe from a pristine Goodwill 23H and swapping in a Kanstul H6 - still debating a Williams/Urbie-style grip. Now this horn REALLY sizzles!

2) Conn 8H c.1955 - a bargain bought from Dillon's with new inners already installed, clearly ridden hard and put away wet in its past life. Tuning slide bow guard, no slide lock. I had the lumpy, dented up leadpipe pulled which I replaced with a new Conn "R" pipe. On that pipe, I swapped the leadpipe ring with an Instrument Innovations straight knurled ring (props to the Olsens for great products!). This horn is a real class act - it just sounds dignified and practically plays itself, especially with a Remington mouthpiece!

3) Conn 70H c.1952 - what started as a real dumpster fire is now spectacular... I lost this one in the original auction on Goodwill but later bought it from Quinn the Eskimo; USPS promptly crushed the bell in the mail system at O'Hare. After cleaning dead bugs and dirt out of the horn (seriously, it was jam packed! I think this 'bone lived in someone's barn), I had it de-dented, then stripped and polished the bell section myself. While I sorted out the valve (amazingly, little wear and a perfect seal despite being packed with dirt!), I had the outer slide tubes straightened, destroyed crook replaced with a new 62H crook, and inner slide built out of M/K drawing inners (made at an extraordinarily reasonable price!!) + 72H cork barrels + M/K GR leadpipe. No slide lock. I made a new opera wheel mechanism myself. This was - and is - the biggest project I've undertaken... it was FUN, informative, and brought a really beautiful voice back into the world. The paper-thin bell flare is really something special; the whole horn is full of life and energy again.

Cheers all, thanks for sharing!