TromboneChat

I am looking at the facebook site of Long-Island-Brass-Company. There are some photos of a "Bariton trombone".
Never have heard about such a trombone before. For me it looks like an big bore alto. Does anybody know more about this instrument? How is the pitch and spec.?

He's made a few, some with double valve sets, as well as a contralto in Ab (whole step below bass). The Baritones are bass bore and bell (usually 9 inches) and the contralto is based around a Kanstul F contra.

Thanks.
Do you know the pitch of the straight bariton trombone on the photo i have sent?

Db, minor third above tenor

ok, also one step below an Eb alto.

As he explained in an earlier thread, he had intended to make a more compact instrument for travel. For this purpose he made a "bass" in Db with two valves. Tubing is bass sized (0.562", 14.3 mm). He claimed that several pro players tried it and liked it.

I haven't had a chance to try one (and not likely to do so). may be a good idea, and may not. Certainly sounds interesting.

heinzgries wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 2:17 pm ok, also one step below an Eb alto.

Genau!


I seem to recall that he initially was trying to make a short bass in Eb and accidentally made it in Db instead.

There's a very long thread from 2-3 years ago about the development of this instrument (if you can survive reading it...it got pretty heated and slightly vaudevillian)

The guy is very good at the detailed brass work, and a relentless self promoter. But his design ideas and social grace are somewhat less impressive. As I remember it, he got run out of here on a rail.

It’s a fun read, from the couple times i’ve talked to him he’s a pretty cool guy, that thread doesn’t show that

I’d love to hear a full time orchestra pro play one of those horns. I think I’ve ever only heard him play one.

I got in a fight with him on facebook about copyright once. I wasn’t impressed.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 5:52 pm The guy is very good at the detailed brass work, and a relentless self promoter. But his design ideas and social grace are somewhat less impressive. As I remember it, he got run out of here on a rail.

That was only because his stuff was the bestest ever and if you questioned any of the design choices, you were obviously an idiot.

brtnats wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 8:04 amThat was only because his stuff was the bestest ever and if you questioned any of the design choices, you were obviously an idiot.

Worse was if you questioned the novelty of one of his innovations.

For a while, you couldn't look at any FB trombone group without being bombarded by that guy's posts about this thing. It got pretty annoying. I had a hard enough time learning alto positions. I'm sure there are very few people who want to learn another whole new set of positions.

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:35 am For a while, you couldn't look at any FB trombone group without being bombarded by that guy's posts about this thing. It got pretty annoying. I had a hard enough time learning alto positions. I'm sure there are very few people who want to learn another whole new set of positions.

In his defense, if it's your only horn, you can get used to the new set of positions. Tuba players learn 4 sets of fingerings depending on which of the 4 common instruments they play (Bb, C, Eb, and F).

BGuttman wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 9:42 am
Tuba players learn 4 sets of fingerings depending on which of the 4 common instruments they play (Bb, C, Eb, and F).

Well, not really. Tuba players generally pick a side, F/C or Eb/Bb, and then specialize in one, and fumble in the other. Some tuba players are exceptional, but most only play one or two.

His horns do look beautiful, but they tend toward the BAC trends.

Brnats is right, most of the crimes we committed here were crimes of non-conformism to his obviously superior ideas. I mean, a baritone trombone that is shorter than a tenor, in a wacky key - it's an obvious need, after all.

I don't think M&W has anything to worry about from this guy, or BAC for that matter. I agree with whoever said that he really wasn't doing himself any favors by making his own recordings. Even I might be an improvement over that. He needs someone who's good enough to sound like a pro, and hungry enough to be impressed with anything shoved in front of him/her.

The workmanship is not the question, his instruments look lovely. Maybe he should go do an apprenticeship for a while. But I gotta say, hats off to a guy who can do all of that, and at least be really good at polishing brass.

hyperbolica wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:18 amWell, not really. Tuba players generally pick a side, F/C or Eb/Bb, and then specialize in one, and fumble in the other. Some tuba players are exceptional, but most only play one or two.

If you know your clefs and the Bb fingerings, then you can use some transposition tricks to read Eb tuba as though it were in tenor clef and C tuba in alto clef. Not too hard.

The baritone trombone is an idea, certainly. It'd be nice if his website had any information about it, and maybe some explanation of the reasoning.

spencercarran wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 11:31 am
If you know your clefs and the Bb fingerings, then you can use some transposition tricks to read Eb tuba as though it were in tenor clef and C tuba in alto clef. Not too hard.

I had an Eb tuba for a while, and eventually learned the fingerings, although it was never as intuitive as Bb fingerings. I'm pretty good with tenor clef, and thought I'd shortcut the learning curve, but I could never get my ear to go along with the transposition, not to mention there's an octave shift thrown in there somewhere. I don't have perfect pitch, but I can tell an Eb is not a Bb. Plus, when you do that kind of transposition, accidentals are the bane of your existence. So eventually I just sucked it up and learned the fingerings straight. It was less struggle in the long run, and I wasn't wacking out my tenor clef reading.

If I remember that thread, the whole thing started out that someone else had created a C mini-bass, a la Gunter Frost. And then someone compared Gittleston to this other guy, and G. didn't like that. He said that the whole reason for Db was that it just sounded good, or something to that effect. It seemed to me the problem he was solving was that he wasn't getting enough attention.

Accidentals do get annoying sometimes, but if you deal with transposing treble clef (eg if you're in the British-style brass band scene) you get used to that too.

Elow wrote: ↑Sun Jan 17, 2021 7:36 pm It’s a fun read, from the couple times i’ve talked to him he’s a pretty cool guy, that thread doesn’t show that

Thanks.

These have been on hold post Covid, since at present I don't even have sufficient time to fill all custom horn and mouthpiece orders. All models that were built have been sold, I actually don't even have a fully assembled one here right now.

I got to play an instrument that Jeff built for a colleague last week. Has large bore and bass components from Minick, Conn, Shires, Bach. Has a pigtail wrap ala Williams. It is a “Franken horn” but looks clean, feels solid, and sounds amazing! His attention to detail and ability to CNC ferrules and other components is wonderful. Honestly, it blew any modern horn build ive commissioned out of the water. I hope to find time and $ for a project with LI Brass Co. One day!

Also, I play a Ballad Horn that plays in Db with a trombone mouthpiece. The transposition isn’t that bad and Db is one of the most soulful sounding keys. It’s so fun to play in that key with concert Bb fingerings and open positions, would love to play a Db alto...guess I found my project haha.

RJMason wrote: ↑Mon Jan 18, 2021 5:01 pm I got to play an instrument that Jeff built for a colleague last week. Has large bore and bass components from Minick, Conn, Shires, Bach. Has a pigtail wrap ala Williams. It is a “Franken horn” but looks clean, feels solid, and sounds amazing! His attention to detail and ability to CNC ferrules and other components is wonderful. Honestly, it blew any modern horn build ive commissioned out of the water. I hope to find time and $ for a project with LI Brass Co. One day!

Also, I play a Ballad Horn that plays in Db with a trombone mouthpiece. The transposition isn’t that bad and Db is one of the most soulful sounding keys. It’s so fun to play in that key with concert Bb fingerings and open positions, would love to play a Db alto...guess I found my project haha.

Thanks man! I know which/whose horn you test drove, really nice example of my work. Theres a smattering of cnc'd 3d machining on there, plenty of handmade components, then everything is fine tuned for perfect fitment before assembly. I have something like 8-9 more projects from him here that once I clear out some backlog I will get started on.