YSL-651 nickel plating -(rather Yama-geeky)

[noordinaryjoe]

My used Yamaha YSL-651 appears to have had repairs made to the tuning slide and now shows the yellow brass that is the actual material that it is made of. Traces of the original nickle plating are still visible. This is interesting to me because this model is usually said to be entirely nickel-silver other than the red brass bell.

Looking closely at the slide crook, it has a slightly different hue of silver and looks to me as though it is also nickel-plated instead of nickel-silver.

What I find most interesting is that I have read/heard more than a few discussions about how this horn sounds vs how it *should* sound with these components constructed of nickel-silver. Knowing now that they are actually yellow brass potentially explains a lot.

All that being said. (Thanks for letting me geek out there) I’m not really digging the ‘calico’ look and am considering doing some home nickel plating on the tuning slide, which is pretty safe and simple with basic ingredients, and a dc power source. I’ve never done horn parts, though, anyone have any DIY experience with nickel plating on yellow brass horn tubing?

[tbonesullivan]

Whoa... if it was plated, they buffed the hell out of it after the repair. They even took off plating on the cross brace.

[BGuttman]

If you are dead set on replating, investigate something called a "Brush Plater". It will be a lot easier to control than trying to set up a plating bath.

[noordinaryjoe]

Whoa... if it was plated, they buffed the hell out of it after the repair. They even took off plating on the cross brace.

Yeah...not sure what went on here, but it ain't pretty...partly why I'm thinking about re-plating it. It does play very nicely and I do love the sound that I get out of it.

Bruce, I'm not dead set on my DIY nickel plating, but it seemed like one of the better options to restore the look and cover up the aftermath of this repair. The brush plating looks interesting, though I am unclear as to what advantage it has over a bath, other than needing less volume, which is relatively cheap stuff to make in quantity.

[BGuttman]

The problem with a bath is how to properly set up the anodes to get even plating. To that add problems with how fast to plate to get even coverage. Bath plating is not a real DIY project.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Hmm? This is interesting. My hypothesis is that the original horn did have an all-nickel (not nickel plated) tuning slide. However, the ferrules and braces were nickel plated on the original.

I believe that a previous owner replaced the original nickel tuning slide crook with a yellow crook. In the process of cleaning/buffing, they discovered that the connecting parts were merely nickel plated. Unfortunately, they were not able to remove all of the nickel plating in a tidy manner.

I don't recommend that you try to replate those parts. In order for touch-up nickel plating to hold, you need a high quality plating solution and the voltage needs to be perfect. In most situations, the plating rubs off in a matter of months. I recommend that you try to clean it up by sanding and buffing away any leftover nickel plating and try to create clean lines between the brass and nickel sections.

This is the problem with nickel plated parts. I have commented on this in reference to parts on a different brand. In repair/customization situations, these parts are a royal pain in the @$$. Any EXTERIOR part on a brass instrument should be a solid piece of a single alloy.

[noordinaryjoe]

The problem with a bath is how to properly set up the anodes to get even plating. To that add problems with how fast to plate to get even coverage. Bath plating is not a real DIY project.

Ahhhh...Thanks Bruce. Glad I asked. That's not been a consideration for the smaller coin and medallion type projects that I had done previously, but I totally understand now with this bigger piece. Plus, any flaws would be so much more visible on the finished product. Doesn't look like too much else is necessary to set up a 'brush' so I will go about rounding up the rest of my supplies and continue my research.

To Crazy4Tbone86's point about it wearing off, I was planning to have it lacquered after the plating process was completed. In that case, since it's not a constant-contact part wouldn't it have reasonable durability?

Happy to hear any other tips or advice you have as I keep digging into this.

Before I go the rest of the way down this rabbit hole, is there a better way to restore the silver-finish look? I really do like the original aesthetics of this horn with the visual all-silver continuity flowing until expanding to the rose-finished bell. The yellow brass and the now partially exposed brass on the bullet-weight stand out and seem out of place to my eye.



Thanks again for the pointers!

[noordinaryjoe]

Hmm? This is interesting. My hypothesis is that the original horn did have an all-nickel (not nickel plated) tuning slide. However, the ferrules and braces were nickel plated on the original.

I have considered this, too. At first I thought I might have been really lucky to have had that component upgraded and that it was contributing to how nice the horn sounded. I don't think I can capture the difference with a photo, but in good light the silver finish on the slide crook & ferrules is definitely different than the silver of the nickel-silver outer slide tubes. Would be interesting (and more definitive) if someone with an original tuning slide could get a good look inside the crook. I'm not quite curious enough to scratch/rub through the slide crook finish to find out, but if the ferrules are nickel plated like the tuning slide and the crook matches them more than the slide tubes...still not definitive, but shifts my personal theory towards yellow brass as original on both components.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Here’s the problem with nickel plating the parts and then lacquering them. What happens if, when you are preparing the metal for lacquering, you or your tech buffs through the nickel playing and you have blotches of yellow brass showing through? It only takes a couple of seconds of buffing to go through a thin layer of nickel plate. This is the big problem with doing repairs and refurbish work on brass parts that are nickel plated.

My advice is to avoid nickel plating anything on the exterior of a brass instrument. It only causes problems for you or the future owner.

[noordinaryjoe]

I still have no idea why this all got stripped off and exposed, but upon closer inspection I am 99% sure this horn originally had the yellow brass beneath the nickel plating - there are still traces of the original plating on the crook itself at the junction where it meets the ferrules. I'll see if I can get a photo for any skeptics.

To Brian's point about nickel plating being a PITA, I get it, but Yamaha made it this way, I'm just trying to restore the original look.

[Klimchak]

Question for you, just because I cannot see it that great: Is there any remnant of nickel-plating on the tuning slide itself, or just on the ferrules and cross brace? It could have been a replacement from a 653 that actually has a brass tuning slide. Perhaps the original was beyond repair, it was replaced with the 653 and when that tuning slide was repaired/buffed to make pretty, it took off the plating on the ferrules. Just a thought.

[hyperbolica]

A simpler explanation may be that polished solder over yellow brass sometimes looks like silver-ish plating. Is it possible that what you are seeing is overflow solder polished down? The specs for the original horn are as you say all nickel-silver except the bell, but maybe that tuning slide crook was replaced with a yellow brass part, and resoldering was done badly, then the excess solder buffed smooth. I can't see someone removing nickel plate with that much accuracy. Removing that much plating would certainly leave other tell tale signs.

[noordinaryjoe]

Question for you, just because I cannot see it that great: Is there any remnant of nickel-plating on the tuning slide itself, or just on the ferrules and cross brace? It could have been a replacement from a 653 that actually has a brass tuning slide. Perhaps the original was beyond repair, it was replaced with the 653 and when that tuning slide was repaired/buffed to make pretty, it took off the plating on the ferrules. Just a thought.

From what I can tell there is residual nickle on the actual tube of the crook, it has sharp-angled corners, not smooth like flowing solder would have. There is some polished solder, too, but not as shiny. I'll try to get a pic...

Thanks Again for all of the input, feedback and ideas! -Joe