Possible red rot?

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Jim2195
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Possible red rot?

Post by Jim2195 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:27 am

I bought a used King 606 trombone around three days ago. It’s in relatively good condition with a few scratches here and there, and two small dents on the bell along with one dent on the tuning slide. Yesterday I’ve started to notice that there were pink-brown colored “corrosion spots” on the bell area, near the dents. (it looks like corrosion to me, I’m not sure) The corrosion there does not extend to the inside of the bell, but inside the bell there also is a tiny bit of the corrosion, but in a different location of the bell. There is also a small amount of this pinkish brown stuff on the lead pipe and some on the end of the outer slide, around the water key. I am suspecting that this can possibly be red rot, although I have heard that red rot has dark spots in the middle of pink-red circular shaped splotches, and this corrosion doesn’t seem to have dark spots nor are the corrosions circular. I have also heard that red rot comes from moisture or from acidic conditions, and the trombone has not come in contact with water since I got it. However I am not anywhere close to an expert so I am reaching out to this forum for answers. I want to know if this “corrosion” is truly red rot, if there is anything I can do to stop the presumed red rot, or what I can do to prevent it from spreading further.
Attachments
BED32E0F-974F-4112-99E0-F325771BBB8B.jpeg
The end of the outer slide.
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The outside of the bell.
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200CA93A-CEB0-4B95-8827-A7210AA9F986.jpeg
The lead pipe.
200CA93A-CEB0-4B95-8827-A7210AA9F986.jpeg (2.13 MiB) Viewed 638 times
Jim2195
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Jim2195 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:31 am

I have some more pictures here. For some reason I was not able to post them in the main post. I apologize if these pictures aren’t good. My phone camera is not the greatest.
Attachments
22790E51-9269-45FE-AED7-EB587F1CB036.jpeg
The inside of the bell.
22790E51-9269-45FE-AED7-EB587F1CB036.jpeg (954.62 KiB) Viewed 637 times
41247F95-8E4D-402D-AADF-D94F293142FB.jpeg
Another picture of the end of the outer slide.
41247F95-8E4D-402D-AADF-D94F293142FB.jpeg (1.45 MiB) Viewed 637 times
Elow
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Elow » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:37 am

It’s looks like some raw brass that got left in chemicals too long to me. I think it’s too pink to be red rot, but i’m no tech.
tbonesullivan
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by tbonesullivan » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:25 pm

Red Rot usually only happens where water can rest for a long time, such as the end bow of the slide. The pink spots with dark centers on the end bow could definitely be red rot.

The area near the hand slide grip looks like acid bleed. The areas on bells look like either acid bleed, or just missing lacquer which has oxidized. Brass is an alloy so it can oxidize into several different colors, one of which is red / pink, or even orange.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39 Alto, King 2103 / 3b, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, Sterling Perantucci 1056GHS Euphonium, Yamaha YBB-631S Tuba
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
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BGuttman
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by BGuttman » Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:49 pm

One thing: red rot comes from the inside out. If you polish the stain and it's not red ot it will eventually disappear.

Red rot takes a while to develop, so I don't expect it on newer horns, except if they have been mistreated with an acid bath.
Bruce Guttman
Merrimack Valley Philharmonic Orchestra
"Almost Professional"
Jim2195
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Jim2195 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:08 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:49 pm
One thing: red rot comes from the inside out. If you polish the stain and it's not red ot it will eventually disappear.

Red rot takes a while to develop, so I don't expect it on newer horns, except if they have been mistreated with an acid bath.

Thanks for informing me. I do not know how old my trombone is. All I know is that it’s a King 606 and it’s seemingly in relatively good condition. Also, how can I polish the stain?
Jim2195
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Jim2195 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:12 pm

tbonesullivan wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 1:25 pm
Red Rot usually only happens where water can rest for a long time, such as the end bow of the slide. The pink spots with dark centers on the end bow could definitely be red rot.

The area near the hand slide grip looks like acid bleed. The areas on bells look like either acid bleed, or just missing lacquer which has oxidized. Brass is an alloy so it can oxidize into several different colors, one of which is red / pink, or even orange.
Thank you for helping. I do not know if the pictures make it look like there are dark centers on the pink spots at the end bow of the slide, because as far as I can see, I don’t see any dark centers. However I have no experience whatsoever regarding red rot, so I will assume there is a possibility. Do you know if there is anything I can do about it if it is actually red rot?
Jim2195
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Jim2195 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:13 pm

Elow wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:37 am
It’s looks like some raw brass that got left in chemicals too long to me. I think it’s too pink to be red rot, but i’m no tech.
Thanks for helping. Do you know if there’s a way to check if it’s red rot or just raw brass?
Elow
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Elow » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:22 pm

Jim2195 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:13 pm
Elow wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:37 am
It’s looks like some raw brass that got left in chemicals too long to me. I think it’s too pink to be red rot, but i’m no tech.
Thanks for helping. Do you know if there’s a way to check if it’s red rot or just raw brass?
I would try to buff it, but you might not be able to do that. I’ve heard wrights brass polish works well, not sure if it’s as effective though.
tbonesullivan
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by tbonesullivan » Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:41 pm

Jim2195 wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 2:12 pm
Thank you for helping. I do not know if the pictures make it look like there are dark centers on the pink spots at the end bow of the slide, because as far as I can see, I don’t see any dark centers. However I have no experience whatsoever regarding red rot, so I will assume there is a possibility. Do you know if there is anything I can do about it if it is actually red rot?
Either way, I would just ignore it until it becomes a problem. If it is red rot, there is no way to really stop it once it has gotten all the way through. If it stays the size it is, it shouldn't be a problem unless you dent that part, which could cause it to crack.

The only solution then is to replace the end bow.
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
Bach 39 Alto, King 2103 / 3b, Yamaha YSL-640, Bach 42T, Kanstul 1570CR, Kanstul 1588CR, Yamaha YBL-612 RII, Sterling Perantucci 1056GHS Euphonium, Yamaha YBB-631S Tuba
Livingston Symphony Orchestra NJ - Trombone
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greenbean
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by greenbean » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:35 pm

The slide crook spots might be red rot. But does it matter? If it is red rot, it might start to leak in about 20 years. You probably won't be the owner when that happens.
Jim2195
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Re: Possible red rot?

Post by Jim2195 » Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:40 pm

greenbean wrote:
Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:35 pm
The slide crook spots might be red rot. But does it matter? If it is red rot, it might start to leak in about 20 years. You probably won't be the owner when that happens.
That’s a relief. Hopefully that’s the case.
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