Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

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BrianJohnston
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Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by BrianJohnston » Sat Jul 25, 2020 8:53 am

Hi all,

I have a custom shires trombone, I'm wondering if anyone has compared multiple leadpipes from:

Stock, shires to Brad Close/Noah Gladstone to M/K Drawing, and others.

Some extra info: (I only enjoy playing on nickel-silver leadpipes to give me a more brilliant/clear sound)

Thanks,
Last edited by BrianJohnston on Fri Jul 31, 2020 8:43 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Fort Wayne Philharmonic - Trombonist
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Amconk
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by Amconk » Sat Jul 25, 2020 10:05 am

I have the MK42 in nickel silver in my horn. I love it! Crisp articulations, and gives a brighter edge to an otherwise warm and deep sounding horn.
Michael Conkey
Southern Oregon Trombonist
-Shires Tenor, SS1 bell, TW47 slide, German Brass Seamed tuning slide, standard rotor
-Modified Schiller 7B clone
-King 4B with custom bell
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BrianJohnston
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by BrianJohnston » Sat Jul 25, 2020 4:08 pm

Good to know! I ordered an MK42 (Not open) nickel silver before I even saw your post!
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mrdeacon
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by mrdeacon » Tue Jul 28, 2020 8:14 pm

I have to ask... How did you damage the pipe? Any reason it can't be repaired?
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42B 1977, Elliott XT
Holton TR185 1968, Elliott XB
Holton 169 1960s, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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BrianJohnston
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by BrianJohnston » Sat Aug 01, 2020 3:13 pm

It probably can, but I was in the market for a new one anyway, mouthpiece got stuck in it, and upon removal it bent/dented quite well. It's sadly laying on the shelf of my practice room all messed up.
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Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 » Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:30 pm

BrianJohnston,

Your bent/dented leadpipe can be fixed and it can also be altered. A leadpipe can be drawn in a little bit or expanded slightly at the venturi. Of course, you can no longer label it as the original leadpipe once it is altered.

I have several leadpipes that I have altered over the years with great success. Recently I ordered/received a Brassark/Brad Close alto trombone leadpipe for my Slokar copy. It had a fantastic low register but the high notes lacked articulation clarity. I drew in the venturi about 3 or 4 thousandths of an inch (I'll keep the technique a secret) and the leadpipe became outrageously good!

If you cannot find a leadpipe to your liking, contact me. I have a few dozen .547 leadpipes, many of them are the "in between" sizes.
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
mrdeacon
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by mrdeacon » Sun Aug 02, 2020 12:19 am

Crazy4Tbone86 wrote:
Sat Aug 01, 2020 7:30 pm
Your bent/dented leadpipe can be fixed and it can also be altered. A leadpipe can be drawn in a little bit or expanded slightly at the venturi. Of course, you can no longer label it as the original leadpipe once it is altered.
Who does work like that? I've inquired about altering pipes before and told it basically can't be done and if it can its not worth the effort. Once the pipe is drawn that's it.

I was told that by both a top tech and a prominent leadpipe maker... so I'm very curious if they both just didn't want to take the job! I was looking to have the insertion depth on a Morse taper pipe altered essentially making it closer to a Remington pipe insertion.
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42B 1977, Elliott XT
Holton TR185 1968, Elliott XB
Holton 169 1960s, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 » Sun Aug 02, 2020 10:30 am

Brass and the various alloys are very malleable metals. Any piece of tubing, especially brass, can be reshaped. I think some techs avoid reshaping leadpipes because the pipes lose their identify with any alteration. If you take a Shires T2 leadpipe and open up the venturi a couple of thousandths of an inch, what do you call it? A T2.2? Also, there are no guarantees that it will play better.

mrdeacon, it sounds like you want a leadpipe altered at the mouthpiece receiver part of it. If I am reading you correctly, you have a leadpipe that you like, but it does not match the taper of your mouthpiece. I have done things like that in the past. Last year, a guy brought me three leadpipes that he bought as part of a larger collection. These three particular pipes played well but his bass shank mouthpiece only went in about 3/4" (standard is 1" to 1 1/16"). I reshaped the receiver end so that the mouthpiece went in the standard length. I warned the customer that the leadpipes might not play the same because it changes the location of the tightest spot (venturi) relative to the end of the mouthpiece. Fortunately, everything turned out OK and I think he is actually using one of those leadpipes.

The only problem that could occur with such a modification is that the newly reshaped receiver end might not fit flush in the leadpipe receiver. .547 bore horns are a bit finicky about how things fit together in that part of the horn because the bass shank is actually an oversized shank for that bore horn.

I can imagine that some techs would avoid such a customization for a couple of reasons:

1. It is not cost effective to do that work. It usually takes up to 2 hours to do that work. For the money a tech would like to charge for that work, he/she probably would like to complete the work in 30-45 minutes.
2. Some techs do not want to mess with the dimensions on a part of the horn that has such a huge impact on how the instrument plays.....and I completely understand their concerns.

mrdeacon, If you want your leadpipe reshaped at the receiver end, I can certainly look at your situation and let you know what is possible.
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
mrdeacon
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Re: Shires, BC, M/K - Leadpipe comparisons

Post by mrdeacon » Sun Aug 02, 2020 4:05 pm

That's good to know. I'll probably hit you up in the future with some ideas/alterations regarding insertion depth!
Rath R1 2000s, Elliott XT
Bach 42B 1977, Elliott XT
Holton TR185 1968, Elliott XB
Holton 169 1960s, Elliott LB
Minick Bass Trombone 1980s, Elliott LB
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