F-attachment water key?

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bigbandbone
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F-attachment water key?

Post by bigbandbone » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:34 pm

Has anyone put a water key on the small crook of the f-attachment of a 72H?
I'm getting tired of having to pull the slide out and tipping the horn upside down. It just looks bad during a performance, and low ceilings and ceiling fans can ruin your day.
I'm hesitating because I don't want to ruin the value of the horn!
Any thoughts or observations would be appreciated. Now would be the time to do it!
hyperbolica
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by hyperbolica » Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:44 pm

That's what open wrap is for.

Maybe you can warm up your horn better. Cold horns condense more.

An Amado or saturn valve is relatively non-obtrusive and shouldn't decrease the value of your horn much if at all.
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harrisonreed
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by harrisonreed » Tue Jul 21, 2020 4:41 pm

Won't it get all over your horn and your legs if you put and use a valve in that spot?
2bobone
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by 2bobone » Tue Jul 21, 2020 5:38 pm

Had one on my 70H for the last 60 years ! Recommended !
GabrielRice
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by GabrielRice » Tue Jul 21, 2020 6:21 pm

I had an Amado water key put on a Thayer valve section a long time ago. It got on my shirt.
Last edited by GabrielRice on Wed Jul 22, 2020 6:55 am, edited 1 time in total.
Gabriel Langfur Rice

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Basbasun
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by Basbasun » Wed Jul 22, 2020 3:43 am

It is a very good idea. I did that years ago on a holton, it is gone though. I plan to do it on two horns as soon as possible. The open wrap is good for that, yes. It may go all over your horn and legs, but it is worth it.
Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 » Wed Jul 22, 2020 9:19 pm

I have seen water keys on many bass trombone attachment tubings over the years. I have installed a few as well. The need for it all depends on the player and how they use their instrument. If water accumulates someplace in the horn and the player is consistently caught in situations where it is not easy to get rid of that water, by all means......put a water key there!

Other brass instruments deal with this all of the time. I have installed quite a few Amado water keys over the years for tuba and horn players. Some of those instruments have horrible places where water gets trapped. The options are to spin your instrument around 2 or 3 times (not easy with a tuba) or place a water key in the perfect place.
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
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elmsandr
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by elmsandr » Thu Jul 23, 2020 7:13 am

hyperbolica wrote:
Tue Jul 21, 2020 3:44 pm
That's what open wrap is for.

Maybe you can warm up your horn better. Cold horns condense more.

An Amado or saturn valve is relatively non-obtrusive and shouldn't decrease the value of your horn much if at all.
I want to draw attention to the first part here. A good open wrap can be designed so that when the horn is on a stand (or on your knee) or playing position that the water will drain back down the slide to your regular water key every now and then so it will not be a significant issue.

Many wraps do this... a lot do not. It is kinda funny, I do not have any issues with condensation forming in my F valve on my standard wrap 50B. However EVERY Thayer horn I have ever played gets water collecting to the point of being a problem on the F valve. Thayers are easy to pull the tuning slide and dump, provided you have enough space around you, so I never added a water key to any of them.

If you just want to make it easier to dump, I suggest trimming ~3/8" off of one inner tuning slide leg so that you can start one and then get the other aligned easier. Another thing I think should be done on all instruments, but that is one of my random design beliefs.

Now I want to put a bunch of thermistors on my horns to see if there is a significant difference there on these horns.

Cheers,
Andy
Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 » Thu Jul 23, 2020 12:57 pm

Andy,

I very much agree with your point about tuning slide legs. There are a lot fewer problems with tuning slides that have one leg longer than the other. I cannot tell you how many student instruments I have repaired over the years with stuck tuning slides because the kid did not realize that the slide was going on crooked and they just keep forcing it on more and more. If I get a repeat offender, I usually trim one side of the tuning slide to help protect the instrument from future harm.
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
bigbandbone
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by bigbandbone » Mon Jul 27, 2020 10:48 am

Will an Amado drain fast enough or should I use a normal trumpet water key with a larger nipple?
timothy42b
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by timothy42b » Mon Jul 27, 2020 11:22 am

I have an Amado on my straight tenor and it doesn't drain fast, even doing the regular maintenance.

I've heard good things about the Saturn but I haven't used one.
Crazy4Tbone86
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Re: F-attachment water key?

Post by Crazy4Tbone86 » Mon Jul 27, 2020 12:30 pm

A tech can drill the hole larger in an Amado water key for faster drainage. If not experienced in this matter, I don't recommend that you do it yourself. Two things can go wrong: 1. You can make the hole too large and the water key piston will not seal. 2. If you do not properly chuck the drill bit and too much of it is exposed, it is easy to pop through and drill a hole on the other size of the tuning slide.

I have had a couple of trumpet players bring me their horns because they attempted to enlarge the hole on their Amado water keys on their own. Both of them accidentally drilled through the brass wall on the other side of the tuning slide crooks!
Brian D. Hinkley - Player, Teacher, Technician and Trombone Enthusiast
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