TromboneChat

I decided to take my horn into the shop and get a bit of work done. I wasn’t allowed to open the case. It will have to sit for five days before the tech opens it and checks it out.

In the meantime, I am practicing using my Yeo on my .547 horn. That’s proving interesting.

Same thing for me, all i needed was a screw for my spit valve but they said it has to wait 10 days for them to open the case and check it. Kind of sucks

Interesting to read you have completely different protocols. Why is it 5/10 days, because of the moisure which could be inside the trombone?

Ted wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 3:12 am Interesting to read you have completely different protocols. Why is it 5/10 days, because of the moisure which could be inside the trombone?

There are conflicting estimates on how long COVID lasts on a flat surface. Some say it lasts a couple of hours on a hard surface and a day on a porous one, while others say longer. I think both delays from the shops are a little extended, but when your life is involved caution is probably warranted.

Out national research institute said it can be transferred by surfaces, but only in perfect laboratory conditions, which will seldom happen in real life.

Anyway, I thought it had something to do with the moisture inside the instrument when it's not cleaned/dried after playing. I wanted to let a guy fix my trombone in the local shop, I'm curious to see if they have a protocol as well.

Ted wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 4:43 am Out national research institute said it can be transferred by surfaces, but only in perfect laboratory conditions, which will seldom happen in real life.

Anyway, I thought it had something to do with the moisture inside the instrument when it's not cleaned/dried after playing. I wanted to let a guy fix my trombone in the local shop, I'm curious to see if they have a protocol as well.

Yes, we have protocols as well in the Netherlands. In our shop, we put the instruments in quarantine for 3 days. That is: after they are dried. Too little is known about the spreading of the virus on surfaces and we want to make sure we are not a virus hotspot. Not just for ourselves, but especially for the customers. As you know: there are quite some musicians that are in the high risk group (age-wise) in our country. If we work on instruments that are quite dirty and (sometimes even very!) wet and help other customers as well during that day, we are at risk of spreading the virus and/or contaminating the shop. Even with washing our hands and all the other measures. I know at least several of our colleagues that work the same way.

If there is an emergency repair, we use gloves and make sure we don't contaminate our workspace or tools and/or disinfect them afterwards. Obviously, we don't get many of those, since there are virtually no concerts.

Most shops will have protocols, even for non wind instruments. The safety of you and their staff is paramount. Many are already struggling with decreased sales and repairs. Someone getting sick is absolutely not an option, as it would pretty much mean the entire shop would need to close for two weeks.

I think Dillon Music requires that the instruments sit for 4 days. Some places may also clean the instrument, depending on what it is. Of course a lot of work that involves modifications, denting, soldering also requires cleaning for the work to be good.

Wow. I have a couple of tech friends and their shops aren't doing this. Both handle school instruments. Now that being said, im not there to personally witness how long they take before handling those instruments, but when I've made stops over the past couple of months they've fixed my stuff on the spot. I know in the case of one friend, when they're done cleaning the instrument they put anything that comes in contact with the mouth (mouthpiece, sax neck, headjoints, etc) into plastic bags and seal them.

What a world.

I spoke to the tech. Both of us were masked and I wasn’t permitted to open the case.

I think I have to wait another 5 days after the work has been done before I can pick the horn up.

The safety of touching, playing or doing repairs on another person's instrument during this Covid-19 time was discussed in detail in another thread. I think the original post in that thread had a concern about purchasing a used instrument back in April from someone they did not know. Any protocol is good protocol for both the player and the technician. So, I hope that nobody is complaining about wait time for their instrument. Better to be healthy and wait a few extra days....it's obviously much better than the other much worse option.

Bruce, in that previous thread you stated that Covid-19 only lives on a hard surface a couple of days. The argument that I was trying to make in that thread was that some brass instruments have a thick ecosystem of calcium, lime scale, gunk and moisture on the inside. I'm sure that Covid-19 and a small village of smurfs could live in those conditions for several weeks. I'm glad to see that Bruce has changed his tone on this topic a bit.

I actually had a King 606 come into shop in the past week that was an excellent example of this. The kid only uses this particular horn for marching band season, so he has not played this horn for about 7 or 8 months. He is going into 11th grade and has never had the instrument cleaned/serviced since his family first bought it for him in 4th grade. I let the instrument sit in "quarantine" for four or five days and started working on it. Even though the slide was a dry, chalky mess, the main tuning slide was a moist, thick jungle of green and white stuff. There were definitely things living in there.....possibly alien life forms!

Brian, understand that our understanding of the spread of COVID-19 changes by the day. If the guidance changes I am open to change my recommendation.

It needs a warm-blooded mammal to develop and doesn't seem to enter a suspended state. Originally it was thought to last an hour or less on hard surfaces, but that has extended to a day. Who knows? Maybe it will last longer. It seems to do better on porous surfaces (like the grungy deposit inside an instrument that is not well cared for). But I don't think the presence or absence of water makes that much difference.

Certainly a school horn that has not been used since the initial lockdowns in late March should be safe to work on, although I'd probably start out with a bleach or disinfectant bath just to be safe.

Just don't go out licking doorknobs or elevator buttons.

Seems like a 75% alcohol flush should alleviate most concerns based on the science. (wear mask & gloves when doing flush) Plenty of brass instruments have had drinks spilled on them (and blown through them!) does anyone know of any concerns exposing the various parts to higher concentrations of alcohol?

noordinaryjoe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:05 pm Seems like a 75% alcohol flush should alleviate most concerns based on the science. (wear mask & gloves when doing flush) Plenty of brass instruments have had drinks spilled on them (and blown through them!) does anyone know of any concerns exposing the various parts to higher concentrations of alcohol?

Alcohols do not react with the metals in brass instruments. If you want to use absolute alcohol or denatured alcohol, or even strong liquor (what a waste! ) you should be OK.

Things to avoid are mineral acids, which dissolve zinc from brass, and especially nitric acid which attacks the copper as well. Weaker acids like citric or acetic can be a problem with long immersions.

How long do CoronaViruses "live" on surfaces?

From WebMD:
https://img.webmd.com/dtmcms/live/webmd ... rfaces.pdf

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:49 pm

Ahhhh. The joys of cleaning high school band instruments. They haven't come alive and attacked people though... at least not yet.

The way the weather is here in Michigan right now, all it would take to sanitize an instrument would be to leave it out on the sidewalk in direct sunlight at midday for a couple of hours.

It's been hot.

tbonesullivan wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:02 pm Ahhhh. The joys of cleaning high school band instruments. They haven't come alive and attacked people though... at least not yet.

Yeah the process goes like this:

Posaunus posted a chart from the web about how long the virus lives. I dont know how accurate that is because it says it doesent survive in water at all but Dutch scientist first found covid 19 in water, admitedly waste water but water nonetheless and it doesent seem to take into account the accepted science that copper and brass actively discourage it. I think Bruce is right, the advice changes all the time as we find out more... Doug

I guess my horn is good to go. Since COVID19 hit I've been practicing Teele network news on and a double scotch to sip on!

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 5:30 pmYeah the process goes like this:

It's been so long. I need to re-watch that episode, so that I think of something other than the Caddyshack Pool Scene when Waltz of the Flowers plays.

noordinaryjoe wrote: ↑Thu Jul 09, 2020 2:05 pm Seems like a 75% alcohol flush should alleviate most concerns based on the science. (wear mask & gloves when doing flush) Plenty of brass instruments have had drinks spilled on them (and blown through them!) does anyone know of any concerns exposing the various parts to higher concentrations of alcohol?

If I remember correctly, John Sandhagen once mentioned that alcohol - while good for cleaning - can damage certain types of laquer.

Unfortunately I cannot verify this because of his > 1000 contributions only about 50 seem to have survived...

Alcohol is often used for de-glazing paint so that it comes out flat instead of glossy.

Properly cured epoxy should not be affected by alcohol. Cellulose lacquer or air dried lacquer may be stripped.

Denatured alcohol has something dissolved in it that sometimes leaves a matte surface.