TromboneChat

I have a Getzen 3062 dual bore slide and I was wonder if there would be any downsides to having the oversleeves cut. As many of you know the 3062 slide is a tank. To anyone who has cut their oversleeves have you seen any benefits? and would it be worth having my oversleeves shortened?

It will lighten the slide quite a bit and change the response making it a bit more lively.


Eric

Bonearzt wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 5:53 pm It will lighten the slide quite a bit and change the response making it a bit more lively.


Eric

Thanks, Eric, Just wondering if there's a good place to start with shortening them. I feel like there is too much on right now but I also don't want them completely gone.

My thought would be to cut right below the cross brace flanges so that the flanges are still on the oversleeves, gives a little more stability to the crossbrace.

They will have to be removed completely to cut & then reinstall. But your tech will know that.

Something to think about... Is maybe only removing the top sleeve! Rath sells slides stock like this.

I have a original Minick slide with only one sleeve. It plays really well. Gets the best of both worlds. Little more open and lively but still slots well. It is a little squirrelier than a slide with both sleeves. Doesn't lighten up the slide as much as taking off both sleeves of course...

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 7:43 pm Something to think about... Is maybe only removing the top sleeve! Rath sells slides stock like this.

I have a original Minick slide with only one sleeve. It plays really well. Gets the best of both worlds. Little more open and lively but still slots well. It is a little squirrelier than a slide with both sleeves. Doesn't lighten up the slide as much as taking off both sleeves of course...

Wanting to get it done right the first time is always the goal, but mrdeacons approach is a good way to start if not the solution.

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 7:43 pm Something to think about... Is maybe only removing the top sleeve! Rath sells slides stock like this.

I have a original Minick slide with only one sleeve. It plays really well. Gets the best of both worlds. Little more open and lively but still slots well. It is a little squirrelier than a slide with both sleeves. Doesn't lighten up the slide as much as taking off both sleeves of course...

Which leg has the sleeve? Some (or all?) Williams horns are more weighted in the top part the handslide brace. I always thought that was interesting and assumed there was a reason for not having it equally distributed.

ngrinder wrote: ↑Sat May 09, 2020 2:51 pm Which leg has the sleeve? Some (or all?) Williams horns are more weighted in the top part the handslide brace. I always thought that was interesting and assumed there was a reason for not having it equally distributed.

The bottom tube is the one with the sleeve.

The reasoning in my head... would be it allows the top tube to resonate easier but the bottom tube with the oversleeve still helps with slotting. I mean most major companies do Bach style slides with the small sleeve on top and the long sleeve on the bottom. It isn't too much of a jump just to remove the whole top sleeve. Pure conjecture though and I have no idea if that's why Minick and Rath do it that way!

I usually like standard weight slides anyways so I really haven't done too much experimentation or tried to do this with any of my other slides. I will say on my Minick bass trombone the original slide played more open but the horn is a little squirrelly with it. When I use a normal standard weight slide with both oversleeves it slots much easier.

I think the longer bottom sleeve is because that's where your hand is, and the sleeve protects the slide from chemical and mechanical damage. Also protects your hand from contact with worn/unlaquered brass.

mrdeacon wrote: ↑Fri May 08, 2020 7:43 pm Something to think about... Is maybe only removing the top sleeve! Rath sells slides stock like this.

I have a original Minick slide with only one sleeve. It plays really well. Gets the best of both worlds. Little more open and lively but still slots well. It is a little squirrelier than a slide with both sleeves. Doesn't lighten up the slide as much as taking off both sleeves of course...

I was helping at Rath when the single bottom oversleeve was decided on for the bronze slides. Done for sound and blow reasons with bronze slides on bell tuning versions. Tried all possible setups and everyone preferred that.

Chris

My recommendation is to do what Eric Edwards recommends. If you keep some of the sleeve on both slides, you have more protection from damage. When I take apart outer slides, I see MUCH MORE damage at the brace on slides that do not have sleeves than on those slides with sleeves. Those sleeves are there for acoustical reasons, but they also give protection from incidents of impact.

Think about the little accidents that happen with a trombone. Every trombone player has dropped their outer slide. If you drop a slide with sleeves on a carpeted floor, most of the time the sleeves protect the slide from being dented. However, if you drop an outer slide that does not have sleeves on a carpeted floor, there is a much higher chance of the braces creating a dent in the slide tubing from the jarring impact. Most of the time when this happens, you cannot see the dent in the outer slide because it is underneath the brace.

Without a sleeve, the outer tube is usually distorted some from soldering at the brace, I wouldn't assume it's from damage.

Would you need to find a different post for the handbrace? I would think that the arc of the oversleeve post would be a different compared to the arc of the post for a slide tube.

Kbiggs wrote: ↑Sun May 10, 2020 4:25 pm Would you need to find a different post for the handbrace? I would think that the arc of the oversleeve post would be a different compared to the arc of the post for a slide tube.

Not necessarily, the difference in the O.D. of both is not that much, so only a slight tweak would be necessary to fit the flanges.


Eric