TromboneChat

Thank you, Tony, for the explanation, it makes perfect sense.

Quote from: griffinben on Nov 04, 2017, 10:56AMThank you, Tony, for the explanation, it makes perfect sense.


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Yes, the explanation and drawing really brings it together for me.

Thanks Ben, and of course, Antonio.

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I've been following this thread for a while, and have been over to the AR site. It's a 2 piece system right? A few diagrams (including shanks) and a simple overview would be helpful rather than having to pick out details from TTF posts. Better to lay out the benefits and advantages straight off the top without having to trawl through dropdowns to find that it is a 2 piece system. That's for the home page surely. The prices don't include the cost of individual parts, say, a top and 2 shanks for example. 

It does lend a certain mystique to the product though.

Has anyone found a list or chart for the Backbore spec's? Nine different types?

Quote from: AR Resonance on Oct 21, 2017, 12:49PM
Backbores – Below are the three of our most popular backbores.

60 40 10.5 – Close overtone spacing. Works well for players that use more compression.

60 43 10.5 – Middle of the road. Works the best for most players and is the backbore we usually suggest trying first.

60 46 10.5 – Widest overtone spacing. Works well for players that use open air and players looking for a more classical feel from the piece.

Other less popular sizes are 60 40 11, 60 43 11 and 60 46 11. These have a thinner shank than their counterparts so they offer a bigger/brighter sound with less slotting allowing the player to manipulate the pitch more. They are better suited for players who need to have more control over the instrument but they also require more precision by the performer. They are available upon request.
The remaining 3 sizes are 60 40 10, 60 43 10 and 60 46 10, noticeably tighter in feel with a much darker sound, specific for those who need a lot of air resistance. They also offer quite a compressed harmonic series.

Hello Pre59!
Sorry, my fault, the way this thread developed didn't allow for a recap of everything in the very first message, I think Luke or the Moderators can help with it.
It's a two parts system: top includes rim and cup, the other bit is the backbore (shank?).
Mouthpieces have different throats depending on the kind of mouthpieces: 6.00 and 6.50 millimeters for small shank mouthpieces, 7.20 and 8.00mm for large shank and bass trombone models.
All small shank share the same rim (but anything can be made on request) and all large shank share the same (but different from the small shank one) rim.
There is a comparison chart on the website that's an ongoing project (I don't really have much time to spend on my computer unfortunately).
Backbores all offer different feelings, sounds and harmonic series: describing the actual shape is very hard but we made the effort to summarize the outcome of most of them.
Unfortunately spending words like "it's great, it has a perfect intonation, best articulation ever" don't really help any customer so I let players express their opinion on them as we players talk by feelings and not by numbers or geometry.
It's a shame I can't help a lot more than this at this moment but I promise I'll do my best to serve you and the rest of the guys in the forum with a more comprehensive description as soon as possible.
I'm sorry you have the feeling I'm trying to add some mystique to my mouthpieces, it's totally the opposite: I try my best to explain things to my best ability but the nature of it makes it very hard.
While I work on a better description is there any specific question you would like to ask regarding the characteristics of the mouthpieces?
Tony

Quote from: Pre59 on Nov 19, 2017, 08:43AMI've been following this thread for a while, and have been over to the AR site. It's a 2 piece system right? A few diagrams (including shanks) and a simple overview would be helpful rather than having to pick out details from TTF posts. Better to lay out the benefits and advantages straight off the top without having to trawl through dropdowns to find that it is a 2 piece system. That's for the home page surely. The prices don't include the cost of individual parts, say, a top and 2 shanks for example. 

It does lend a certain mystique to the product though.

Hi,
I did mention that it is a two piece system in the original post on this thread and then a bit later Tony commented with a full description of the system and what each backbore does. I’ll make sure that all this information makes it to the website as well as the exact pricing in Euro and USD.

Thanks for the replies. Sorry about the "mystique" line, I was a bit frustrated by then..


 

Well, after following this thread and various recommendations I took the plunge.

I ordered a 25.1 /60-43-10.5 in silver

I've played it for a few days now and can honestly say it's blown everything else I've owned/tried in that size out of the water!!!

Totally blown away....... Thank you to the folk on here for bringing Antonios work to our attention and congratulations on an amazing product 

Glad you enjoy it Chris.  I'm definitely enjoying mine!

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Dec 05, 2017, 01:23AMWell, after following this thread and various recommendations I took the plunge.

I ordered a 25.1 /60-43-10.5 in silver

I've played it for a few days now and can honestly say it's blown everything else I've owned/tried in that size out of the water!!!

Totally blown away....... Thank you to the folk on here for bringing Antonios work to our attention and congratulations on an amazing product 

Tweaked a little and now on a 26.0/60-43-10.5 in silver Much better fit "For me"

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Dec 16, 2017, 03:28AMTweaked a little and now on a 26.0/60-43-10.5 in silver Much better fit "For me"

Chris,

How did the product change work, was it a sale or return or have you kept the first m/p part/s?

I'll return the first one.

Just want to update quickly:

Loved my original top, but the rim was a little too small for my lips. I ordered one from Luke with a slightly larger rim, same cup size, it’s right on the money. 10.5-46 backbore still.

Amazing mouthpiece. Still my go-to, and makes every horn I own sound even better and easier to play.
Sold the original top to a trombonist in California and he is enjoying it very much on his Bach 36B. Game changer.

Sidebar: I think I know half a dozen trombonists, including myself, playing on lawler .500 bores with AR mouthpieces. Amazing modern trombone combination. These pieces also really bring zip and new energy to Williams trombones. Works so well with my Williams Model 7...vintage and modern synergy, I call it.

Bravo Antonio!!

-RJM

Anyone playing any of Antonio's bass pieces? Thoughts?

Andrew

I'm on day 5 with a 25.1/60/10.5 with 43 & 46 backbores.  I experimented with the two backbones on the first few days, and for a while thought the 46 was going to work best. On the third night, I went back and forth between the AR and my Shires 11C (closer to 25.1 in actuality), and think I've determined that the 43 is probably a better all around fit, at least with the Williams 4 (.490)  I'm playing.
The openness and presence of sound is astonishing. I agree with previous comments that the upper register feels more secure, giving me more confidence up there.  I'm suddenly finding myself able to 'paste' D's, Eb's and F's like never before.

I can't wait to try this on my Williams 6 and Lawler .500 when I get home in April!

Once I feel fully adjusted, I'll report back with some more thoughts.  So far, so good!

Any chance that someone will have these at the American Trombone Workshop in March?

Quote from: fsgazda on Dec 16, 2017, 02:46PMAny chance that someone will have these at the American Trombone Workshop in March?

I doubt it. Since I’m a player first I don’t have time to make it to shows. If you’re interested hit me up at lmalewic(at)gmail.com. I let guys try them for a few days before making a decision (I do require a payment up front) and players really dig the pieces.

Hello guys, thanks a lot, again!
I'll try to reply to a few things:
I don't offer a trial service myself, it's impossible for me: I can barely make the mouthpieces customers or dealers order and in most cases is impractical because I live in Italy and shipping plus custom duties plus restocking fees would simply cost too much.
Some dealers offer this service (Luke most notably) but it's something he does, please don't ask me to do it.
Shops of course allow customers to try and everyone is invited to visit me in Italy to test many more sizes than any shop can carry. And if you think that US to Italy is a long trip... already six guys from Australia visited me this year alone!
Plus, it's Italy!!!

American Trombone Workshop: when is it? How does it work? Am I still in time to do it?

RJMason: thanks! I don't even know many of the trombone models you guys are playing but I'm glad you are finding my pieces fit for those horns. I never conceived the mouthpieces for a specific style of music or instrument, I'm just trying to make something that is as efficient and easy as possible, hopefully this makes them apt to many styles of music.
With my trumpet pieces I've seen a strange trend: depending on the country some call them "jazz pieces", some call them "classical pieces". To me it means that they can be used for any genre.
I've recently sold 4 mouthpieces to 4 top class Orchestra players in Italy and Switzerland and one of the pieces is exactly the one that Alan Kaplan is using. Again, this tells me that efficiency is the most important thing.
Luke is getting a few new cups (V+) in a matter of two days plus some more standard tops and backbores, don't make him sleep, bug him day and night!
Ciao!
Tony

The American Trombone Workshop is a yearly event hosted by the US Army Band.  It is in March.

http://www.usarmyband.com/trombone/

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Dec 16, 2017, 03:28AMTweaked a little and now on a 26.0/60-43-10.5 in silver Much better fit "For me"

Still flirting with the 25.1 ........... 

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Dec 18, 2017, 02:40PMStill flirting with the 25.1 ........... 

Hello Chris, how did you go about choosing initial sizes to try? I live in Sweden so would have to have some parts sent, but as Antonio wrote, it’s impractical for him to send many parts, which I fully understand.
Cheers, John

I just chose the 2 sizes of mouthpiece rim that I already play on and asked for the most common cup and backbone shapes.
Cheers,
Chris.

Quote from: RJMason on Dec 16, 2017, 12:10PMJust want to update quickly:

Loved my original top, but the rim was a little too small for my lips. I ordered one from Luke with a slightly larger rim, same cup size, it’s right on the money. 10.5-46 backbore still.

Amazing mouthpiece. Still my go-to, and makes every horn I own sound even better and easier to play.
Sold the original top to a trombonist in California and he is enjoying it very much on his Bach 36B. Game changer.

Sidebar: I think I know half a dozen trombonists, including myself, playing on lawler .500 bores with AR mouthpieces. Amazing modern trombone combination. These pieces also really bring zip and new energy to Williams trombones. Works so well with my Williams Model 7...vintage and modern synergy, I call it.

Bravo Antonio!!

-RJM

Hey! That’s me!  After getting used to the mouthpiece with 7 shows of “Annie” and 2 Christian Rock Christmas Church gig, I have to agree, Definitely a game changer.  It just makes everything a little smoother and easier.  Currently using the 46-10.5 backbore.  The 43 was just a little tight for the 36B but would have been perfect if I still  had my Bach 16M.  Part of me wants to try the 25.7 size, but that’s just a thought as I’m pretty happy with the 25.4.

Quote from: griffinben on Nov 03, 2017, 12:07PMI got my 25.4 V+ and C+ cups in this week.   

WOW.   

Totally blows my best Mt. Vernon 6 1/2AL out of the water.  I've gravitated more toward the V+; it's a little easier to blow through the harmonic series of the horn.  A little more slippery, which I like.  The C+ has more bounce but grips more.  I'm waiting to try some of the other backbores before making a final determination, i think the right backbore could make the C+ a good "lead" piece for me.  I'm hooked.

Everything is so stable, extremely easy to play in all ranges of the horn.  It doesn't have the same 'pop' up top as the standard C cup up high, but it's thicker and richer below middle Bb. 

Ben
Hello Ben. I am finding the same thing w/the standard C cup...great above middle Bb, progressively less good...for me...on the way down from there. What shanks are you using on the C+ and V+?

What would be the 5G-ish sizes, and any feedback on them?

Quote from: sabutin on Dec 21, 2017, 09:48AMHello Ben. I am finding the same thing w/the standard C cup...great above middle Bb, progressively less good...for me...on the way down from there. What shanks are you using on the C+ and V+?

Hi Sam,

I found the C+ to not work for me.  I've tried a bunch and it just is a little too dull.  I'm using a 43 shank on the V+ and now a 46 on the C.  The slightly bigger opens it up for me.  I'm curious if there's a V of similar depth/style to the standard C...

Quote from: griffinben on Dec 21, 2017, 12:08PMHi Sam,

I found the C+ to not work for me.  I've tried a bunch and it just is a little too dull.  I'm using a 43 shank on the V+ and now a 46 on the C.  The slightly bigger opens it up for me.  I'm curious if there's a V of similar depth/style to the standard C...

Hmmmm...I'm using a 46 11 shank on the C and it's still not as good below middle Bb as I need. Even my NY 11C is better down there, as are of course the NY Clarke S and Mt. Vernon 6.5A too.

S.

Hey guys, just wanted to clear something up so it's not confusing. At the moment we are offering a standard cup and a V+ cup. The C+ that Ben has was a prototype we tried for him.

Tomorrow I’m traveling back to the USA to visit family and will be dragging my horn along so I can tryout an AR mouthpiece.

Since it’s been a good long time since I’ve messed around with different pieces, let alone changing parts, I thought I’d ask if any of you have ideas on how to go about that. Do I warm up on what I’ve been using and then start trying the new bits?

Any advice is welcome and seasons greatings to all,

John

Quote from: johntarr on Dec 25, 2017, 12:35PMTomorrow I’m traveling back to the USA to visit family and will be dragging my horn along so I can tryout an AR mouthpiece.

Since it’s been a good long time since I’ve messed around with different pieces, let alone changing parts, I thought I’d ask if any of you have ideas on how to go about that. Do I warm up on what I’ve been using and then start trying the new bits?

Any advice is welcome and seasons greatings to all,

John
I'm sure Luke will help you get fitted.

Basically, start with what you use now and identify what you'd like to do better.  Then Luke can see if a change of backbore (or even cup) will help.

Good luck.

Just a tip for anyone with an AR - It might be a good idea to put a little oil in the threads of the cup-backbore connection.  I'm wishing I had done this.  Right now, mine is stuck together and I can't seem to get the two pieces separated. If all else fails, I'll see if I can get someone at Landress Brass to fix it when my ship gets to NY in a few weeks.

Hello Dave!
Unfortunately oil or grease won't help, I've tried all kinds of tricks and asked a few well known friends who make threaded mouthpieces, they always get stuck if you screw them good.
At the same time there's an easy fix, just get two pieces of THICK rubber and a plier. Bite on the backbore with the plier and hold the top with the hand, it will unscrew very easily.
Rubber is important both because you don't want to mark the mouthpiece and because it will help gripping on the mouthpiece. Trying with bare hands it simply impossible.
Let me know if it works!
Merry Christmas! (I'm late, I know... )

I use teflon tape on my threads. Not sure if the tolerances will work on these pieces but they work well on my DE pieces.

Quote from: DaveAshley on Dec 26, 2017, 03:35AMJust a tip for anyone with an AR - It might be a good idea to put a little oil in the threads of the cup-backbore connection.  I'm wishing I had done this.  Right now, mine is stuck together and I can't seem to get the two pieces separated. If all else fails, I'll see if I can get someone at Landress Brass to fix it when my ship gets to NY in a few weeks.
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That happened to mine and I did what Antonio suggested I do. A good pair of pliers with some rubber. Bingo, off it came. I used rubber from an old bicycle inner tube I had lying around. After that I put a drop of liquid wrench brand penetrating oil on the threads and it has helped.

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Will there be a booth for these at ITF?

I'll try!

I also use a silicone-coated oven mitt on each hand which provides me with enough grip around the rim and backbore.  Teflon tape works well, too, as Matt K. suggested.

Quote from: sabutin on Dec 21, 2017, 03:43PMHmmmm...I'm using a 46 11 shank on the C and it's still not as good below middle Bb as I need. Even my NY 11C is better down there, as are of course the NY Clarke S and Mt. Vernon 6.5A too.

S.

Hi Sam, I wonder if mouthpiece insertion depth would solve that.  I little teflon to back it out a smidge.

Quote from: griffinben on Today at 06:22 AMHi Sam, I wonder if mouthpiece insertion depth would solve that.  I little teflon to back it out a smidge.

Isn't a restricted lower range an inevitable outcome of a V shaped 'piece, hence the V/Cup that makers like Marc produce. My Marc 11 was in that mould.

Quote from: Pre59 on Today at 08:22 AMIsn't a restricted lower range an inevitable outcome of a V shaped 'piece, hence the V/Cup that makers like Marc produce. My Marc 11 was in that mould.

I haven't ever found this to be the case. There's so many other variable that could explain it, but in general, a V shaped cup does not restrict low range.   

Quote from: griffinben on Today at 06:22 AMHi Sam, I wonder if mouthpiece insertion depth would solve that.  I little teflon to back it out a smidge.

I've messed with it, Ben. The whole m'pce is a little longer than the ones I am used to laying, so backing the m'pce out a little is pretty much not an option...too flat for my extended 1st position preferernces. And...since I am not going to take down the shanks on m'pces I have on spec or mess with my leadpipes, putting it in further won't work either.

The dues of equipment search...

S.

Quote from: griffinben on Dec 29, 2017, 09:22AMI haven't ever found this to be the case. There's so many other variable that could explain it, but in general, a V shaped cup does not restrict low range.   

Apart from the modular nature of these 'pieces, the 2 main differences (as far as I can tell) are, a angular edge to the throat horizon and a V profile. My own experience with V cups has been with some early Jet Tones and Giardinelli 5Ds'. I always had to go with a wider model to restore the lower register.

Alan Kaplan has a signature model now.

https://www.facebook.com/arresonancesrl/posts/431678343914448

I know this is still a bit in the future but we are planning on attending the ITF in July. I will keep you updated as we solidify our plans but this will be a great place to try out everything if you are planning on attending. Since it’s only a few hours from Chicago it would be an easy drive so we’re planing on making it happen.

After reading here, I recently became an owner of one of these mouthpieces. I haven’t been one to experiment with mouthpieces so I felt it was time to try something new. This also corresponds with changing my ideal sound and what my goals are now.

Just for some background, I’ve been using a 6 1/2 AL rim screwed onto and 11C cup for my Rath R10 .500 bore. I have also tried a Monette but never liked it.

When I first received both a 24.1 and a 24.4 cups from Luke, I immediately appreciated the ease. However, I found that my articulations were less clear and I fatigued faster than I should. Each time I played, things got better and easier. I think I really needed to make some changes in the way I have been playing and needed to make a transition to the new mouthpiece.

The piece I had been using feels much deeper that the AR top and I think the old one was too deep. I was doing some kind of movements in order to get the older setup to work. With the AR, large intervals and the high range because much easier. It also seems like the response is much more immediate. There were three shanks to try, 60/40/10.5, 43 and 46. I gravitated towards the bigger shank and had almost decided on the 10/46 shank but inadvertently tried the 43 a day later, finding it to be a great setup.

In addition to them being great mouthpieces, Luke who sells them was very helpful and gave me good ideas on how to tryout the new pieces.

My next project will be to try a V+ top on my .525 bore hone.  If you can, give them a fair try and know that you may have picked up some useless habits and may need to replace them with others.

Tanks to all who posted here,
John Tarr

Quote from: Chris Fidler on Dec 05, 2017, 01:23AMTotally blown away....... Thank you to the folk on here for bringing Antonios work to our attention and congratulations on an amazing product 

Chris this is not the first time we've heard this! 

Quote from: Malec Heermans on Jan 08, 2018, 12:45PMChris this is not the first time we've heard this! 


Ahh ! He just gets very keen..... on occasions.....

Chris Stearn

Quote from: blast on Jan 08, 2018, 02:24PMAhh ! He just gets very keen..... on occasions.....

Chris Stearn

Still loving it 

How does it work with the Inderbinen trombone?

(Note to self: wish I had remembered this for the kid who had the scholarship to buy a new trombone.)