What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

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Thrawn22
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What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Thrawn22 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:46 pm

Title sez it all.

What horns won't yo be caught dead with!


For me, anything Jupiter. I'd play a Bundy before a Jupiter.
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Burgerbob
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Burgerbob » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:38 pm

Never say never.
FullPedalTrombonist
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by FullPedalTrombonist » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:26 pm

Burgerbob wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:38 pm
Never say never.
:twisted:

What he said. But I can say with most certainty I’d never buy some opulently expensive horns like a Thein contrabass or something funky like a Schagerl Ganschhorn. Mainly because I don’t need them.

But would I buy any variation of a horn I’d use that’s different than what I’m playing right now? Maybe. Probably.

There are some I’m definitely not interested in because of their fame for being bad. Like The Dude Getzen made in the 60’s or something. And others because, while I like them, I can’t make them work. Like a Conn 44H. I played a really perfect example a few years ago that was the silkiest, richest, darkest sounding small bore I’ve ever played. But it got buried by strong trumpets and saxes and didn’t blend with brassy trombones at all. Maybe in an intimate combo setting, but I don’t do that much.
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Matt K
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Matt K » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:31 pm

Anything by Sierman.
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Kingfan
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Kingfan » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:25 pm

I said I would never buy a cheap Chinese student horn, but ended up buying one. However, I paid only $20 for a horn that needed $150 in repairs and would be worth less then that when done. For my $20 I now have a usable soft case, another unbranded mouthpiece, a new supply of Superslick, and a floor lamp. :good:
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by brassmedic » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:49 pm

Cleveland, Bundy, Olds Ambassador, Pan American, any Czech trombone, any trombone made in India.
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jtbandmusic
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by jtbandmusic » Fri Feb 14, 2020 10:13 pm

Any Olds. I've had a P24G and a trigger Recording. Both were in great condition; both were beautiful horns. Great slides. Both were unplayably flat, Flat, FLAT. Tuning slide all the way in. Still flat.

I tried different mouthpieces including Olds. Real Olds pieces were tiny compared others, and still flat. Tried shaving down shanks. Flat. Could never play anything with any ensemble. Splatty tone, bass and Recording.

Flimsy bendable levers on the bass, with painful cramp-inducing ergonomics. Thumb trigger was like pressing a spoon. The Recording had that slow, reach-around-the-brace trigger.

Case on both horns were sturdy wood steamer trunks that weighed about 3000 lbs each.

I like the horns I have now.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by harrisonreed » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:40 pm

Having found equipment that works really well for me, I don't I'll be buying anything that isn't a 1for1 replacement or slide replacement in the future (except for the Shires alto...). But... What will I never buy... Let's say if nothing changes from the current state of affairs:

First and foremost, anything from BAC. Nope! Their newest "artist" model horn that they are working on? Whaa?? Will it make me sound like an autotuned can of tuna? Multitracked? No thanks...

Any of the square bow, crazy narrow Bach small bores. Good lord, how do people play those things?

A Bach alto.

I'll never pony up for a Thein. Good or not

Probably never buy a Shires tenor. I've played lots of them. Haven't found one that spoke to me. Sad, because the slides are so good. Their altos are a different story. Definitely will buy one some day. I'm holding out for them to release the bell tuning version that they just prototyped, so I can do a shootout and walk away with the best one.

Any soprano or piccolo or contrabass trombone.

A valve trombone or superbone.

Now, I did say if nothing changes. There may be some real breakthrough tech that is developed in the future that we all might be basically forced into getting. Like the F attachment was. Except lots of people still are holding out even on that one. So probably not. It's just a trombone, and they don't really change all that much...
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Finetales » Sat Feb 15, 2020 11:51 am

The ones I can't afford.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by sirisobhakya » Sat Feb 15, 2020 6:19 pm

Other than cheap horns already mentioned that goes without saying, mine would be the standard BO series of Bach.

Don’t get me wrong. I don’t like them not because of their sound nor playability, the ones I have test-played sound great in their own ways. The thing that I don’t like is the “far open” wrap of these horns. Harder to pull (I got used to using the main tuning slide as the anchor point for my hand to push out the F slide), and also easier to get dents because the F branch sticks too far back.
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paulyg
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by paulyg » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:03 am

Nothing specific. BUT:

The whole category of horns that can be characterized as: Undesirable, Overpriced, and Probably-Stolen Horns for Sale on Craigslist.

You all know what I'm talking about... Abilene student horns, Mendinis bought by people undergoing a quarter-life crisis, Bundys that have led a long and unhappy life, ect. There's always that joker who wants 2K for their "vintage" Bach 36B that looks like it went through the spin cycle.

JUNK.
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FeelMyRath
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by FeelMyRath » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:30 am

Easy. Bach 42. Tried a few, they just don't do it for me - I think it's that bass crook and wide slide.

Also, anything with a Thayer valve.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by brassmedic » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:03 am

Ha ha! I play a Bach 42 with a Thayer valve, and I have never played a Rath that I liked.
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Andre1966tr
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Andre1966tr » Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:38 am

Blessing, Lawler and BAC.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by mrdeacon » Sun Feb 16, 2020 10:13 am

Andre1966tr wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 5:38 am
Blessing, Lawler and BAC.
Ok I have to respond to this one.

What's up with Lawler? Do you just not like the horns or do you have beef with the company?

I understand BAC but I've never heard anything but praise about Lawler.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Trevorspaulding376 » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:20 am

Sad to hear that , Mike makes some terrific instruments I have a custom 6 that is phenomenal

Also have a lawler 3 that’s incredible , those are 2 great craftsmen to be firmly against one of their horns ..
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by hyperbolica » Sun Feb 16, 2020 11:50 am

- any Bb bass with a main slide bore greater than 565
- any tenor with a main slide bore less than 485
- any Thein (just due to price and pretentiousness)
- any Monette
- any modular (the temptation to meddle would just be too great for me to bear)
- anything very rare or strictly collectible (the likelihood of being disappointed is way too high)
- anything too beautiful to play (what's the point)
FullPedalTrombonist
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by FullPedalTrombonist » Sun Feb 16, 2020 12:09 pm

I don’t know if I would buy a fully BAC trombone. My experience with them has been either side work ( which was very good ), restoration ( again very good ), and modification ( which was a long process talking about how to achieve what I wanted and updates along the way that ended up being exactly what I wanted ). I haven’t had that eye opening moment with a full BAC horn like I have with one of mine they modified or restored. I won’t deny that people have butted heads with them, but I only speak for myself.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by johnjenkins » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:41 pm

Thrawn22 wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:46 pm
Title sez it all.

What horns won't yo be caught dead with!


For me, anything Jupiter. I'd play a Bundy before a Jupiter.
Have you ever played either of the Jupiter XO horns, their professional line of instruments? They're pretty darn good.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by johnjenkins » Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:47 pm

I visited the BAC at TMEA a few days ago, and as always, they're doing innovative things with their instruments, experimenting with various materials, even bi-metallic bells, using both traditional and artistic designs. Their custom stuff is pretty good, and the slides are great. I know they've had some customer service issues in the past that I've read on this forum, but I have much respect for Mike Corrigan - his vision, work ethic, and what he's trying to do for the music scene.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Fruitysloth » Sun Feb 16, 2020 2:22 pm

Taking a bit from hyperbolica:
- any Bb bass with a main slide bore greater than 565
- any tenor with a main slide bore less than 485
- any Thein/Latsch (just due to price)
- anything from Sierman, I'm disappointed in a company that steals from hard working individuals
- any instrument with a set back bell, throws me off too much
- TIS small bore tenors
- Any Eb 3 valve instruments, unless it's to add a 4th valve or do some sort of frankentuba thing
- most, if not all valve trombones, I might get ONE for the brookmeyer/tizol feel
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Andre1966tr
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Andre1966tr » Mon Feb 17, 2020 3:04 am

My first trombone was a Blessing Scholastic, worst horn I can imagine...
BAC: I don´t like the design, especially the Mason horn
Lawler? I don´t like screw bells

Not a dispassionate evaluation.... I know :-)
imsevimse
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by imsevimse » Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:17 am

As a collector I have made a choice not to buy horns marketed as student horns unless they for some reason are well regarded buy enough professionals and therefore could be considered to be as good as horns marketed as professional horns :wink: On my student trombone exception list are Kanstul 760, Yamaha YSL-321, YSL-322, YSL-354, YSL-356G and YSL-356R. All other student horns by Conn, Bach and others are out of interest, but never say never :good: From the exception list I own four out of six.

/Tom
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Vegastokc
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by Vegastokc » Tue Feb 18, 2020 10:53 am

imsevimse wrote:
Mon Feb 17, 2020 5:17 am
...All other student horns by Conn, Bach and others are out of interest, but never say never :good: ....

/Tom

I love all those Yamahas but I wouldn't overlook the venerable King 606. :D
Sure its a little heavy and maybe not as refined as a 354 , but compared to a Director or Bach 301, its at least a step or two above. I played one all through college in all settings and it never let me down (so yes, I am biased. ;))
I would not really consider it a collectable type horn though if that's your thing.
But not bad to mess around on for a while and then flip to a student for a reasonable price. :)
Also, don't forget about the Tempo 1305. Basically an "intermediate" 2B. It might be a keeper.
(Kinda like a Mustang 5.0 LX vs GT in the late 80's :lol: )
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by sf105 » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:43 am

Late Boosey and Hawkes.
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TimBrown
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by TimBrown » Wed Feb 19, 2020 7:51 am

Either a Bach 42B or a Bach 36B.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by tbonesullivan » Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:24 am

johnjenkins wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:47 pm
I visited the BAC at TMEA a few days ago, and as always, they're doing innovative things with their instruments, experimenting with various materials, even bi-metallic bells, using both traditional and artistic designs. Their custom stuff is pretty good, and the slides are great. I know they've had some customer service issues in the past that I've read on this forum, but I have much respect for Mike Corrigan - his vision, work ethic, and what he's trying to do for the music scene.
Bi-metallic bells are nothing new. Neither are wooden bells. Frank Holton did experiments with all different types of bell materials. Also I find their "innovative" designs to simply look "unfinished", "industrial", or maybe even "steampunk".
David S. - daveyboy37 from TTF
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by LongNeckedAnimal » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:37 am

FeelMyRath wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:30 am
Easy. Bach 42. Tried a few, they just don't do it for me - I think it's that bass crook and wide slide.

Also, anything with a Thayer valve.
I feel like Bach is one of those manufactures that either works brilliantly for the player or not at all, everyone I've personally talked to has been so divisive on them.
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Re: What are some horns you will NEVER buy?

Post by johnjenkins » Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:41 am

tbonesullivan wrote:
Wed Feb 19, 2020 8:24 am
johnjenkins wrote:
Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:47 pm
I visited the BAC at TMEA a few days ago, and as always, they're doing innovative things with their instruments, experimenting with various materials, even bi-metallic bells, using both traditional and artistic designs. Their custom stuff is pretty good, and the slides are great. I know they've had some customer service issues in the past that I've read on this forum, but I have much respect for Mike Corrigan - his vision, work ethic, and what he's trying to do for the music scene.
Bi-metallic bells are nothing new. Neither are wooden bells. Frank Holton did experiments with all different types of bell materials. Also I find their "innovative" designs to simply look "unfinished", "industrial", or maybe even "steampunk".
I understand that isn't anything new, but not many are doing it now. As to your stated preference/opinions, "different strokes for different folks."

Aesthetics matter, for certain, but I'd argue that function matters more.
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