.525 or .547 Bore?

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MAcount10
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.525 or .547 Bore?

Post by MAcount10 » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:13 am

Hi, I'm currently a college freshman looking to buy a trombone; it's been about a year since I've played. My current dilemma is choosing between a .525 or .547 bore. Two local musicians have enthusiastically advised me to get a .525 bore horn: they're apparently more versatile and flexible in any playing environment. The recommendations were also based on the fact that I'm uncertain as to which genre of music I'll be playing in. I know that .547 bore trombones are standard in symphony orchestras where a big sound is required, but right now I'm only in a casual orchestra which plays film and video game music. I was in my high school's symphony orchestra though, so I might have an interest in auditioning for my college's symphony orchestra.

At my local music store, I've found a barely used Getzen 3047AFR (.547) for $2200 and a barely used Getzen Eterna II 725 (double bore .525/.547) for $1700. I've researsched online a bit and found the Bach 36B and the JP 331 Rath to be good .525 bore horns; the used trombones on Brass Ark also seemed impressive to me. I'm primarily looking for a professional trombone that can last me a while, one that's preferably around $2500, but the budget's lenient - within reason of course.

I would greatly appreciate any advice for my situation. Thank you!

Edit: as a reply to the first post, I'm an amatuer trombonist that wants trombone to be a lifelong hobby. I'm currently borrowing the Getzen 3047 AFR from my local; it plays a bit heavy to me (I used to play a .525 trombone) and it builds up spit a lot faster than other trombones (I hear spit in it all the time).
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Matt K » Thu Feb 13, 2020 11:38 am

The safe approach is to get a small bore and a large bore. $2500 is tight, but doable for both. Medium bore are awesome, I personally play one for most of what I do, but I also have a small bore and a large bore and use them contextually and would not bring the medium bore to everything I play. I have done some video game & movie studio sessions within the last year though, fwiw, and in that I actually went really specialized and used a bass slide on my existing bell. Sounded great but 99% I'd never take that setup to a live gig and certainly not for commercial music.

One thing that I can't see is indicating what you're currently playing on (and what you do/don't like about it). Or if you are majoring in music or "just" an amateur (I'm in the latter category by trade as a programmer). That information is going to radically change the answers you get.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Burgerbob » Thu Feb 13, 2020 12:33 pm

Yup... I can only think of a couple things that I have played recently that I would use a 36 for, and the 3B or 42 were a better choice every time.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Matt K » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:20 pm

You could "get away" with a medium bore in that case. The advantage to that is that you'd only need one horn. I'd go for something with an F attachment... Yamaha make some good medium bores, the 646 and 630... Bach 36B, Conn 78H, King 3BF+. However, you might still be better suited to getting a small bore and a large bore. If you go used, you can definitely stay in your price range. There are countless options. You can get a decent condition Yamaha 354, which is a student horn but plays very well for what it is, for $100 if you're patient and the parts for it are super cheap if you do need to get it fixed up. But you're probably all-in going to spend $300-400 even on that option, and that starts to open up "pro" small bore horns for which there are countless, awesome options.

That leaves you with ~$1.5-2k for a classical horn which is nearly enough to buy new depending on the brand. But common horns are good used for awhile. If the Getzen builds up spit faster than you're used to, you probably just have a better cork in it than you did on other horns. There's nothing really about a horn that would lead it to condense water more rapidly. Bach, Conn, Courtouis, Getzen, Greenhoe, Edwards, Kanstul, M&W, Rath, Schilke, Shires, and Yamaha (possibly others I'm forgetting) are good... you'll have much more success finding a used horn in your budget from certain brands in that list and less than others (E.g. you'll seldom find a used Greenhoe pre-Schilke acquisition, let alone one for $2k; however, you'll find lots of Bach 42B for within that range).

You might consider going to a festival like ATW, ITF, or similar. Lots of manufacturers and 2nd hand shops demo horns; if you're in the area when one happens, it's generally a good time to buy. If you're near NJ you can stop by Dilllon which has a ton of used horns or Brassark in LA. Otherwise, you'll probably not have a ton of options to physically try out a number of horns. Just too much variety for most places to stock everything, let alone a lot of good priced, used instruments.

Bear in mind you'll probably want a mouthpiece for both. That's something that's impossible to answer over the internet as to what will suit you. A lot of us who double like to use something very idiomatic (e.g. a pretty small piece for small bore and a relatively large piece for large bore)... others use either very similar mouthpieces or very similar rims. Bach 6.5AL is popular for both small and large bore, but is on the edge of large for small bore and small for large bore. Others yet, like myself, play a large rim and something otherwise idiomatic for the horn. Tons and tons and tons of options. I'd maybe leave myself about $200-400 for mouthpieces personally (each one can cost upwards of $200). The horn might come with one you like, which would be great. But sometimes used horns don't come with one. (They also might not come with a case, so check on that too... You can get a decent case for under $200 but better to double check!)
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by hyperbolica » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:38 pm

Simplify it: Just get a 525. They can do anything a 547 can do, and some stuff smaller bore horns can do. From the audience no one will be able to tell what size instrument you have. 547 is more work. If you're not playing in a pro orchestra, there really is no need to go 547. Even for my 547 horn, I have an extra 525 slide which I use more.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by JLivi » Thu Feb 13, 2020 1:50 pm

A .525 will be more versatile. But I’m a fan of owning two horns. Either find a good/cheap student horn like the Yamaha 354 or find something like a King 3b or Conn 6h. Those usually go for around $500-800. Aim low obviously!

Then you’ll have just under $2k to get a large bore and you should have plenty of options there. Used large bores pop up all the time on eBay and the forum.

A notable “budget” large bore in the Benge 165f (closed wrap) or 190f (open). Those are usually around $400-1000 depending on condition and the seller.

Good luck in your search! Only you know what is best for your situation.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by KingOfDreamland » Thu Feb 13, 2020 2:10 pm

I'm in the same camp as Burgerbob and Matt K. I have a King 607F .525 bore horn, and I love the thing to death since it's the horn that really got me to start focusing on music when I was in high school, but for what I play now, I don't like the idea of trying to do everything with that instrument alone as a compromise. I had a 3047AFR not long ago, which I sold because our band was on hiatus and I wasn't playing it at the time, and I wish I wouldn't have, but I get that it's not a good fit for everyone. If you play the horn enough and decide you like it you can definitely find better deals on them depending on how picky about condition you are, and you could easily find one cheap enough to leave room in your budget for a small-bore trombone. If you decide to move on to other options, as Matt said, there are a ton of Bach 42s available within your price range as well. As a couple people mentioned above, your best bet would be to look into one of those large-bore options that will leave you with enough left over to have some small-bore options available as well if that is indeed the route you decide to go.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Thrawn22 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:47 am

Hell. With a $2500 budget you can get everything minus a bassbone.

I'm in favor of all camps as far as suggestions go.

With a .525 horn, you can pass in almost all genres. A Bach 36 has a wide spectrum of sound that allows it to blend well in classical settings, and when you work it, it can brighten up. Conn 78Hs are hard to come by and 3B+s are imo on the opposite side if the sound spectrum from a Bach.


You can get a good professional small and large bore for your money. For small, Kings 2Bs and 3Bs are plentiful as are Conn 88Hs and Bach 42s for large bore. A trigger large bore can help you get by on easy bassbone parts too if need be.

Like i said to start, with your budget can net you a Bach 36, a Bach 42 and a King 2b/3b if your lucky.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Fruitysloth » Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm

I’ve got a Bach 42 that I would let go of for $1100 shipped, giving you $1400 to find a nice small bore AND maybe a medium bore.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by whitbey » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:13 pm

Fruitysloth wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm
I’ve got a Bach 42 that I would let go of for $1100 shipped, giving you $1400 to find a nice small bore AND maybe a medium bore.
That is smart.
525 horns are just plain in between. Best to do small and big right.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by harrisonreed » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:20 pm

I don't like any .525 horns. To me, the do all horn is a normal King 3BF. The only thing it won't do well is heavy orchestra stuff, but no one usually can just waltz in and play orchestra gigs anyways.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by BGuttman » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:20 pm

If I have to take only one horn and I don't know what I'm playing I bring my Medium Bore. If I could only own one horn it would be a Medium Bore. If I needed to play professionally I'd consider large and small as everybody else seems to want.

In most amateur playing opportunities nobody cares what size horn you play -- only what you can do with it.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Thrawn22 » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:41 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:20 pm
If I have to take only one horn and I don't know what I'm playing I bring my Medium Bore. If I could only own one horn it would be a Medium Bore. If I needed to play professionally I'd consider large and small as everybody else seems to want.

In most amateur playing opportunities nobody cares what size horn you play -- only what you can do with it.

Ever since i bought my 78H it has been my go to horn for all things legit unless i absolutely need to pull out my 8H.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by hyperbolica » Fri Feb 14, 2020 6:50 pm

In my quartet 3 of 4 of us play 525. John Swallow, my teacher at New England Conservatory played a 36b. 78h was at one time the standard orchestral horn. I own 6 tenors, 3 of which have 1 or more 525 tube. I challenge you to actually hear a difference between someone playing a 547 and 525.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by FullPedalTrombonist » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:00 pm

Depending on how serious your university is about music I would take your budget and sit on it for a bit. Play trombones at music stores if they let you or have enough that interest you, ask to play on a section mate’s horn for a rehearsal, take some lessons, read about what epiphanies people have had here and in the TTF archives.

Personally I’d split that budget into finding two good used horns. A large bore and a small bore. I think you could get a 42B and a Conn 6H easy. Just depends on if those are the ones you like.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Bach5G » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:26 pm

I have .525 and .547 Shires bones.

If I had to choose one, it would be the .547. The .525 is the jack of all trades but master of none.

That being said, I’m taking the .525 to play 3rd in a big band swing dance tonight.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Bach5G » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:28 pm

Fruitysloth wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm
I’ve got a Bach 42 that I would let go of for $1100 shipped, giving you $1400 to find a nice small bore AND maybe a medium bore.
42 or 42B?
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Fruitysloth » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:31 pm

Bach5G wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:28 pm
Fruitysloth wrote:
Fri Feb 14, 2020 2:25 pm
I’ve got a Bach 42 that I would let go of for $1100 shipped, giving you $1400 to find a nice small bore AND maybe a medium bore.
42 or 42B?
It’s a 42B, I forgot to clarify, thanks!
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by PaulT » Fri Feb 14, 2020 7:54 pm

[changed my mind on commenting on this topic. Not enough experience.]
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by FullPedalTrombonist » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:12 pm

There are very prominent players who use larger than “standard” equipment in a commercial setting. Personally I’ve used a large tenor and even one of my bass setups in some big bands and such. I love the sound and what I can do with the horn, but not more than I do with a small bore. Maybe the same. But in a different way. Like how tea or coffee in the morning are both great but for different ways and depending on mood.

With being recorded ( and people listening live ) radically different timbres can come from the same horn. My old SilverSonic 2B could sound darker than the bass bone in the studio or as bright as the altos in a hall or anything in between.

I miss some old large bore Yamaha’s I’ve been able to play in the past. They seemed so expressive and easy on the player.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by ChadA » Fri Feb 14, 2020 8:49 pm

I really enjoy playing my Greenhoe 88H with the SL2547 slide. I actually prefer it to the stock 547 slide.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Jimkinkella » Fri Feb 14, 2020 9:10 pm

No really bad suggestions so far, it does depend on what you want to play.
If you're uncertain I would say that a major concern is picking up a horn that you can get a reasonable return on if / when you sell it.
There are a number of guys (including in this forum) that do a bunch of stuff on a .525, but most of them do have other options at hand.
I personally played a .525 for a number of years, but went with a .547 along with a small bore for a couple of decades.
Now I have a couple of other options.
The 2 big considerations I would look at in your position would be what horn really clicks with you - if you don't like it you won't practice and probably not sound great - and ask what horn would make a reasonable investment if your playing style and interests evolve.
If it's a difference of a few hundred dollars I would strongly lean toward the horn that speaks to you right now.
I always recommend playing as many horns as you reasonably can, and just see how they feel.

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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by PaulT » Fri Feb 14, 2020 11:20 pm

attempt to delete duplicate post
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Kingfan » Sat Feb 15, 2020 8:58 am

There seems to be a rose brass bell Blessing B88 (.547 bore) open wrap for sale on Facebook in Victor, NY for too cheap - $350. https://www.facebook.com/marketplace/it ... 530768410/. If you could nab that one, you have plenty of money left to buy a really nice small bore. Worth checking out, I think.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Bach5G » Sat Feb 15, 2020 9:12 am

Adding to my previous post, I played my .525 on 3rd last night. I use a s/s Schilke 51 with it. I do like how fat it can sound in the lower and mid-registers.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Trav1s » Thu Feb 20, 2020 5:17 am

I'm one of the the .522/.525" do all players. I am far from a pro and don't do gigs so the one size fits all for solo playing or concert band works great. I found mouthpiece choice to be the key to the sound you are looking for. My current combo is a '69 Conn 79H and a Doug Elliott mouthpiece LT102/LT-D/D4. Before the Elliott combo I tried a bunch of different mouthpieces on the 79H but kept returning to a Schilke 51B.

That being said, I would not want to try lead or second in a big band on the 79h so I have a Conn 24H I picked up for that kind of playing... but that is a whole other discussion.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by LeTromboniste » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:38 am

While it is true that .525 can pass in about every situation, there are few situations where it is actually the best choice. I do think it is very underrated for solo playing, and it can work extremely well for 1st trombone in orchestra.

But the problem arises when you break the progression within the section. If the 1st trombone plays a large bore and you come in on 2nd with a medium bore, it just feels uncomfortable for everyone. The first has to brighten up a lot to maintain the blend and they're now the one adapting their sound to the second rather than the opposite as it should be, and the bass player can suddenly feel like they are completely detached from the section sound. It doesn't make anything impossible to play and the difference it's something you can deal with, but it's just not ideal or completely comfortable. And sure nobody is going to throw you out of an amateur orchestra or band for playing medium bore on a 2nd or 3rd part, but you're all going there to have fun, and in my experience it's more fun when the section sounds at its best and we're not struggling to find our blend.

So given that it is well within your budget, I would support the suggestion of getting both a small bore for jazz and for when you play 1st in orchestra/band and you feel the piece could use a lighter and more rounded low brass blend, and a large bore for the rest of your orchestra/band playing (1st when you do want the big fat low brass sound, and 2nd/3rd) and occasional jazz chart that can use that sound.


I think you can't go wrong with a Conn 6H for the small bore, it's just so versatile, it works for lead or second playing in jazz but is equally great on 1st in orchestra when you want that lighter, more rounded low brass blend. And they're not hard to find in the 500-800$ range.

For the large bore, a Benge 190f is a wonderful horn that sells for insanely cheap. Or you can spend 1500-2000 on a good vintage Conn 88H or Bach 42 (although really the Bach is improved tremendously by more open valve designs like Thayer or Hagmann and that does increase the price a lot). One good thing with that option (rather than spending more on a new or higher tiered instrument) is you can cross-grade between equivalent instruments if you try other ones that you like better than yours down the road without actually spending more money.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Matt K » Thu Feb 20, 2020 8:06 am

But the problem arises when you break the progression within the section. If the 1st trombone plays a large bore and you come in on 2nd with a medium bore, it just feels uncomfortable for everyone.
The 525 slides that allow for a large shank pipe actually do a surprisingly good job of mitigating this effect in my experience. The inverse is also true if you can get a large shank piece that has a tighter profile and a leadpipe that works with it. I've tried that setup before just because I had the parts on hand... it's actually a cool sound and you get to try to channel your inner Steve Davis, but if you were to buy the parts new - assuming you already had a large bore horn with interchangeable pipes - you'd be in the low range of a used pro small bore.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Tarkus697 » Thu Feb 20, 2020 12:49 pm

The two horns I use the most are my .525 Bach 36BO and my .510 Rath R2F. I used the Bach in HS and college for regular wind symphony and high level jazz ensemble grounds and now it gets used for my regular community concert band as well as regional orchestra/symphony subbing gigs. The Rath is everything else from my wedding band/corporate event gigs to jazz/big band.

Only thing I'm learning I don't like about my Bach is the F slide extends a bit too far for my liking. The Rath has an open wrap with an extra turn in the tubing that brings it closer in length to the main tuning slide. Absolutely wonderfully balanced in feel.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Finetales » Thu Feb 20, 2020 6:49 pm

For $2500 you could get a killer Elkhart 88H and a killer old 3B and be set for life (unless you decide you want to pick up bass trombone). And that's on the high end...you could easily get a really nice Benge or King large bore horn and any number of good small bores for jazz and have enough left over to get a third instrument (like a Mack Brass bass trombone for example) just for fun. With that budget, compromising with just a do-all .525 (as fun as they are) isn't really necessary.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by deanmccarty » Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:07 am

I own quite a few instruments... but... if I sold everything except one, I would keep my medium bore tenor. It can do just about anything. If you can change leadpipes and mouthpieces, it works great as a classical instrument and a commercial instrument. Mouthpiece choice is key with a medium bore. I use Doug Elliott’s MT series for any classical lit on the medium bore.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by 11561man » Sat Feb 29, 2020 9:48 am

deanmccarty wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 5:07 am
I own quite a few instruments... but... if I sold everything except one, I would keep my medium bore tenor. It can do just about anything. If you can change leadpipes and mouthpieces, it works great as a classical instrument and a commercial instrument. Mouthpiece choice is key with a medium bore. I use Doug Elliott’s MT series for any classical lit on the medium bore.
Definitely agree with mp size being a factor on a medium bore. Huge difference IMHO.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Steve335 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 11:15 am

If you are a serious trombone student, studying classical and other styles you will need a .547.
A 5.25 might be a great horn, but if you are going to music college to study full time you will need a .547 and if possible a small bore trombone also.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by youraveragebonist117 » Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:13 pm

I'm gonna second Burgerbob and say go for a .547 Bb/F horn and a small horn. My freshman year, I had a Benge 165F (basically a King 4B) I got for $750 and a King 3B in awesome condition I bought for $1000.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by BGuttman » Sat Feb 29, 2020 1:30 pm

Two conflicting points of view here.

1. If you plan to play professionally, or to study trombone in college, you will need a symphonic bore. It is expected. And if you plan to play any jazz or commercial work it has to be supplemented by a small bore.

2. If you are only going to have one trombone and plan to play everything on it, a Medium Bore is a good horn to own. But you can probably (within reason) play anything on any horn.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by MTbassbone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:33 pm

I started college on a Bach 36K, and a King 2b. Then I sold the 36K and bought a Shires large bore. Then an alto but that's another story. My teacher had no issues with me playing a medium bore. At the time I felt the switch was necessary to get an "orchestral" sound. In some ways I feel like switching to a large bore made me rely more on the gear, and less on the chops. Looking back I think I would have been better off on the 36, but hindsight is 20/20. There wasn't anything I played in college that couldn't be done on a medium bore. Try both, make a decision, and stick with it as long as you can. I had another teacher that often said "play the smallest gear you can get away with" for what it's worth.

There is a Bach 36C in the classifieds. Get a f attachment and a straight horn using the same parts.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Matt K » Sat Feb 29, 2020 4:13 pm

In some ways I feel like switching to a large bore made me rely more on the gear, and less on the chops.
I would challenge the negative implication of this; there's no virtue in making things harder on yourself. After all, you could also have relied more on your chops by using the large bore for commercial stuff. Or playing the small bore for classical. If the idea is that relying more on your chops is better than relying on your gear, both of those scenarios would have been ideal in comparison to a medium bore, after all. Which isn't to say that the 36 wouldn't have been a better horn for, just not for this particular reason.
MTbassbone
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by MTbassbone » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:27 pm

Matt, you could be right. I guess what I was trying to say was I was relying the larger bore and bell to get the sound I wanted rather than focusing on good technique and my chops to get the sound I wanted (or thought I wanted). I don't know, I probably don't know what I am talking about.
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by hyperbolica » Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:41 pm

Wow, totally over thinking this, people. Getzen 547 or 525/547 for college, non-music major. The 525/547 will allow you to enjoy playing more. Don't overthink it.
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Matt K
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Matt K » Sat Feb 29, 2020 8:32 pm

MTbassbone wrote:
Sat Feb 29, 2020 7:27 pm
Matt, you could be right. I guess what I was trying to say was I was relying the larger bore and bell to get the sound I wanted rather than focusing on good technique and my chops to get the sound I wanted (or thought I wanted). I don't know, I probably don't know what I am talking about.
I think you're being too hard on yourself, but I don't know exactly what your approach was not being there myself, of course! There is a relatively common "gate keeping" viewpoint that paints attempts at dialing in equipment as taking the easy way out, often with the implication that you wish to avoid practicing. Obviously if you were not say, focusing on good technique then that would be less optimal than you focusing on technique but that is independent of the instrument you are on.

What you're possibly probably thinking is it's like weight training for athletes where if you put a heavy sleeve on your leg and run, that when you take it off, it'll feel faster. Or at least I've heard that analogy before. The problem with this is that that implies that you'll eventually take off the sleeve. Otherwise, you're literally just perpetually handicapping yourself. And it also neglects opportunity costs. Say you have a fixed amount of time to practice. If you're spending extra time focusing on making your medium bore sound like a large bore, you are not practicing something else with that time. If instead you "automatically" have a baseline that is closer to how you want to sound with the Shires you can spend minimal amounts of time on that and delve deeper into other aspects of your playing.
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mwpfoot
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by mwpfoot » Thu Mar 05, 2020 11:47 am

I don't think .525 is a compromise in wind band, casual orchestra, community band, brass ensemble, ... to me it's the right sound for the standard fare in those settings, and it also melds well with the hodgepodge of bores that will be there on any given night.

Real deal "we are serious musicians" settings in academia are another game but you'll certainly be able to start with a .525 and go from there, or use a music department horn, or decide that it's not your scene after all, or ...

:good:
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Remo
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Re: .525 or .547 Bore?

Post by Remo » Thu Mar 05, 2020 3:30 pm

I'll chime in with go for the .525 bore. I got a Yamaha 640 a few years back and love it, play it all the time. It handles the wind ensemble gig just fine, great in the big band. Also had a Getzen 725 dual bore (and I've got a mouthpiece for you if you get one) and it was a great horn too. Darker sounding than the Yamaha, it was a better fit in the wind ensemble. Ended up thinning the heard for other projects so decided to let it go. IMO, used you should be paying between $900-$1,100 for those.

Bottom line, both are very flexible horns, and once you lock in on a mouthpiece or two that works for you and the horn, you should be able to cover a lot of ground. More so than what I'd say a .547 can do.
:bassclef: It's all about the bass - clef! King3B/YSL640/Holton181 Giddings/Hammond/Giddings
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