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I'm not sure if this has been posted about before, but I was just curious how one goes about getting an endorsement deal through a horn or mouthpiece manufacturer? What are the criteria these companies look for?

I've heard artists say to me, "They turned me down because I'm not an educator." And then I've heard other people say, "I don't play enough." What's the secret?!?

I'm not specifically looking for myself, but I was curious about the process and what companies are looking for. I've been shocked when certain friends of mine have gotten turned down by certain companies. And then I also have friends where I think to myself, how'd YOU get an endorsement? This is not necessarily trombone playing friends

What are the pro's and con's to getting a deal? How does one profit off of this? And by profit I don't necessarily mean financially.

I'm no endorsed pro, but I'd imagine a lot of it it has to do with marketability and exposure. If the endorsement won't increase sales and/or brand awareness, I'd imagine there isn't much value to the endorsing company.

If it helps, I think you’re a heck of a guy.

I have had at least 3 instrument makers offer me money to not play their horns in public.

Mikebmiller wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 5:40 pm I have had at least 3 instrument makers offer me money to not play their horns in public.

I'm not specifically looking for myself, but I was curious about the process and what companies are looking for. I've been shocked when certain friends of mine have gotten turned down by certain companies. And then I also have friends where I think to myself, how'd YOU get an endorsement? This is not necessarily trombone playing friends

What are the criteria these companies look for?

Good post. The secret is.....sales.....all things lead to sales. Do you want to make in impression? Be loyal and exclusive to your brand- if you can't, the game is not for you. Hats off to all those worthy of an artist relationship but choose not to (based on their independence). The ability to move horns is paramount. Congeniality helps. Your ability to influence others into buying is most important. Don't go into a "relationship" with grandiose expectations, you're not Bill Watrous. Don't go into a "relationship" expecting FREE. Free has no value. Make an impression- if you already play the brand- great! If you don't and you LOVE the instrument- offer to buy it through a retailer. The relationship with a retailer is key.

What are the pro's and con's to getting a deal? How does one profit off of this? And by profit I don't necessarily mean financially.[/i

The "profit" of becoming an artist is your acceptance into a special fold of like minded musicians and being afforded the privileges of that particular brand by a company that appreciates you. It can be a lot of things. Want to become a commodity? Book gigs with the brand and retailer in mind. Influence those around you to play your brand. One thing is for sure- SOME artists are actually liabilities to their brands.....the public image (now that you are the "face" of the brand) is most important. A professional demeanor is most important. Please don't let your ego lead conversations. No one needs to be reminded that you are an artist, unless you too accept the fact that you are a nobody. Action! Go to your local retailer and tell them you will support them if they do this (carry this horn, this mouthpiece, march book, etc.) Demand service but you better back it up with sales from your camp. The ball is in your court. Get good at social media- like it or not. ALWAYS speak of competitors (horns, stores, artists, etc) in the highest possible sense. You never know when you are one sentence away of insulting someone even in a casual dialog. Oops! Can't get that one back! Convey your enthusiasm for the brand at all times. Meet "artists" from brands and pick their brains. In the end, brands don't want trombone playing robots- doesn't matter how good you think you are- they want people- that connect and influence PEOPLE! I am a firm believer- an artist relationship starts and stops with the instrument. If that instrument is not a 100% the horn of your dreams, don't fool yourself into a relationship. You won't be able to hide the fact that (in public performance) that you are not quite happy but are doing it for the potential of ? (you can interject money here if you want). And one other thing.....never trust a repairman with a clean workbench.......!

bimmerman wrote: ↑Wed Dec 11, 2019 2:43 pm . . . I'd imagine a lot of it it has to do with marketability and exposure. If the endorsement won't increase sales and/or brand awareness, I'd imagine there isn't much value to the endorsing company.

^This.

Elaborating, I would also expect the endorser have wide exposure to that particular market. If he doesn't have what it takes to attract the demographic group there's no value added to a company to endorse. And, of course, the reverse applies, too.

None of this really answers my questions. Maybe I didn't ask them correctly. Maybe this isn't the audience for this question. I'm not sure now...

I'm not strictly talking from a marketing standpoint. There are tons of players that have endorsements and are artists that I know don't push the companies or gear as much as thy could IMO.

There are a lot of educators with deals, and it surprises me a little bit. Does this mean that anyone who teaches at a university, or has a large studio of private lesson students is a candidate to get a deal? And then use their studio(s) to book master classes, clinic, events, etc?

JLivi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 3:25 pm None of this really answers my questions. Maybe I didn't ask them correctly. Maybe this isn't the audience for this question. I'm not sure now...

I'm not strictly talking from a marketing standpoint. There are tons of players that have endorsements and are artists that I know don't push the companies or gear as much as thy could IMO.

There are a lot of educators with deals, and it surprises me a little bit. Does this mean that anyone who teaches at a university, or has a large studio of private lesson students is a candidate to get a deal? And then use their studio(s) to book master classes, clinic, events, etc?

"Everyone in their studio seems to be playing Shires these days"

Educators are the first people I'd pick to sell my horns. They think they are big news because they'll have a two inch picture on a maker's website. Kids think their teacher is big news, because that two inch picture and brand legitimacy matters to them. XYZ company sells 6 or 7 $5000 trombones per year without actually doing anything....

You think it's about the artist (maybe it is!) But if 90% of someone's studio is on a brand because of some careful nudging by a teacher, what else could it be about? $$$

What kind of deal are you imagining? The artists are likely not being paid at all, especially if they don't have an "artist model". If they do get paid, it's probably in conjunction with running a branded masterclass.

In the end, isn’t it all a status symbol to have people think you’re a bigger deal? But it’s also a revenue stream to book branded master classes and clinics? Even possibly use it as momentum to book higher profile, higher paid gigs?

Now I don’t know what I’m asking anymore

JLivi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:29 pm In the end, isn’t it all a status symbol to have people think you’re a bigger deal? But it’s also a revenue stream to book branded master classes and clinics? Even possibly use it as momentum to book higher profile, higher paid gigs?

Now I don’t know what I’m asking anymore

For educators?

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:36 pm For educators?

For educators that still play. I'm not thinking about band directors. Although come to think of it, the majority of the private teachers at all the schools I teach at don't really play anymore.

Like I said earlier, now I don't know...

I'm lucky enough to be with BAC and have been for almost 2 full years now. I simply sent Mike (the founder) a message and he directed me to his administrative help to work it out. I had the benefit of a recommendation from my last undergrad teacher.

I think a lot of these things can feel "random" because each company does things differently. Yamaha, for example, is prestigious and well known enough that they only need to endorse artists already at the top of the game. Whereas a company like BAC which, while growing is relatively unknown on a global scale, will take more risks on younger artists.

Jeff, I know a lot of educators who still play professionally, so I understand what you're getting at. Even if the only way you're defining 'educator' is 'full time band director' which we know is not the case.

It depends on the company a LOT that I know. I think how they support you and what it means depends on what they are willing to put out and how they view you.

harrisonreed wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:36 pm

JLivi wrote: ↑Thu Dec 12, 2019 5:29 pm In the end, isn’t it all a status symbol to have people think you’re a bigger deal? But it’s also a revenue stream to book branded master classes and clinics? Even possibly use it as momentum to book higher profile, higher paid gigs?

Now I don’t know what I’m asking anymore

For educators?

Yes, for educators exactly. Nobody who hires me for freelance playing work cares that Shires has a picture of me on their website. But the fact that I can say I'm an S. E. Shires Artist can help me book guest masterclass appearances, especially in conjunction with some kind of Trombone Day event that also has some Shires sponsorship or a Shires dealer in attendance. And I can often get some additional financial help from Eastman/Shires to get there.