Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

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Kingfan
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Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:44 pm

I am considering getting a vintage Duo Gravis. As I understand it, the King 7B is basical a 6B DG with independent valves. I stumbled across the Wessex PBF-562 which is a 7B clone for a really nice price https://wessex-tubas.com/products/doubl ... one-pbf562 . Anybody have any experience with Wessex basses in general, or this horn in particular? I play bass only in big bands and community bands, so don't need an orchestral style horn. Thanks!
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
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braymond21
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by braymond21 » Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:59 pm

I had one of these a few years ago when I first started bass. It played well and I used it for concert and jazz band and it worked great for both. It was a bit difficult to play in the double trigger range but it could have been me since I hadn't played for very long. They're a great option for the price if you're looking for something to start off with or use as a double.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Sun Dec 01, 2019 8:57 pm

braymond21 wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 7:59 pm
I had one of these a few years ago when I first started bass. It played well and I used it for concert and jazz band and it worked great for both. It was a bit difficult to play in the double trigger range but it could have been me since I hadn't played for very long. They're a great option for the price if you're looking for something to start off with or use as a double.
I have had a Holton TR-180 for 30 years, some of that time it was my primary horn ("hey, we don't need another tenor bone player, but do you have a bass?") but most of the time it sat and collected spiders. I just played it back to back with a Duo Gravis a few hours ago, courtesy of another TromboneChat member, and liked the DG a lot. No difference in pedal tone difficulty to me, just sounded brighter and clearer comparted to the mellower Holton.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by bellend » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:16 am

Just for the record THIS IS NOT A KING 7B COPY!

Having owned both an original 7B and the Wessex horn there are many big differences so don't be fooled by the curved bell stay and valve wrap.

That being said, the Wessex ( for the money) is not at all bad but it has very little to do with any King trombone.
You will more than likely have to get the trigger levers adjusted as they are in a very odd position.


If you want to for a real King having owned a Duo Gravis and a 7B I would recommend you stick with the former , the 7B just isn't as good, all the ones I've tried are stuffy to blow compered to the Gravis.

You will no doubt get people chiming in saying how wonderful they! are but ask yourself how many really good pro's use 7B's????

Have fun

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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Bach5G » Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:43 am

Was this the horn that Fossil/Blast/Stearn had a hand in? If not, whatever happened to that horn?
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by hyperbolica » Mon Dec 02, 2019 10:20 am

Bach5G wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:43 am
Was this the horn that Fossil/Blast/Stearn had a hand in? If not, whatever happened to that horn?
No, Blast's horn was this one:
https://wessex-tubas.com/collections/tr ... one-pbf565
Usually sold out, even at twice as much as the other one. I'd say that's a pretty safe bet at the price.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 2:12 pm

Stumbled into a real deal King 7B for a good price. Can't wait until it is delivered!
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Burgerbob » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:30 pm

bellend wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:16 am



If you want to for a real King having owned a Duo Gravis and a 7B I would recommend you stick with the former , the 7B just isn't as good, all the ones I've tried are stuffy to blow compered to the Gravis.

I have to agree, the 7B is just a bit sub-par in the lineup. I find the "not-copy" to actually be a better trombone in most respects.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:58 pm

Burgerbob wrote:
Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:30 pm
bellend wrote:
Mon Dec 02, 2019 9:16 am



If you want to for a real King having owned a Duo Gravis and a 7B I would recommend you stick with the former , the 7B just isn't as good, all the ones I've tried are stuffy to blow compered to the Gravis.

I have to agree, the 7B is just a bit sub-par in the lineup. I find the "not-copy" to actually be a better trombone in most respects.
Gee, thanks for bursting my bubble.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Burgerbob » Tue Dec 24, 2019 3:59 pm

They're not bad, just haven't found one that played as well as a 6B. Maybe you'll be lucky!
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by BGuttman » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:13 pm

When I bought my 7B I tested it against a 6B (both new). The 7B was more open and I preferred it. Remember, any one copy of a horn can be good or bad.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by marccromme » Tue Dec 24, 2019 4:56 pm

A King 7B works fine for big band, it has a brighter sound than other basses, which blends fine with mostly smaller bored jazz bones. Valve register is due to conventional valves a bit with resistance, though more open than the classic Bach 50. Partials do line up fine if I use a Bach 1 1/4 size mouthpiece, and it works well well with a Yamaha Yeo as the largest. You can find them for reasonable prices, only funny thing is the lineup of the levers, they are not ergonomic. You might want to bend or alter them to fit your hand. And if you decide you want something else, you can sell again without loss. So I say it's a pretty good choice for a big band horn.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Tue Dec 24, 2019 9:45 pm

Thanks. Yep, big band and community band is what I'll be playing from here on out. Yes, I was thinking this horn would hold its value vs. a Jinbao. Once I get it, I'll play it back to back with my TR180 and post the results.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by RConrad » Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:12 pm

I dropped by Wessex's showroom over a week ago and gave a few of their horns a try. The 7B clone played fairly well but like someone else mentioned the levers for the valves have to be adjusted. I'm not a huge fan of the slide though it may have just needed lubricate. I also got to try Blast's horn which I really liked. The valves felt good and the horn was well balanced. Unlike the Rath I play when you bring it up to play you can feel it just slot into place. It was also much lighter.... So it should go without saying that it played much easier for me. Anyways I may have to try and save up for the more expensive one if I can't find something around 1k.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by WGWTR180 » Fri Dec 27, 2019 5:39 am

Kingfan wrote:
Sun Dec 01, 2019 12:44 pm
I am considering getting a vintage Duo Gravis. As I understand it, the King 7B is basical a 6B DG with independent valves. I stumbled across the Wessex PBF-562 which is a 7B clone for a really nice price https://wessex-tubas.com/products/doubl ... one-pbf562 . Anybody have any experience with Wessex basses in general, or this horn in particular? I play bass only in big bands and community bands, so don't need an orchestral style horn. Thanks!
You've probably seen it but there's a very nice Duo Gravis for sale here in the Classifieds.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Fri Dec 27, 2019 7:20 pm

You've probably seen it but there's a very nice Duo Gravis for sale here in the Classifieds.
Already bought the 7B. Being shipped tomorrow.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by harrisonreed » Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:35 pm

RConrad wrote:
Wed Dec 25, 2019 2:12 pm
I dropped by Wessex's showroom over a week ago and gave a few of their horns a try. The 7B clone played fairly well but like someone else mentioned the levers for the valves have to be adjusted. I'm not a huge fan of the slide though it may have just needed lubricate. I also got to try Blast's horn which I really liked. The valves felt good and the horn was well balanced. Unlike the Rath I play when you bring it up to play you can feel it just slot into place. It was also much lighter.... So it should go without saying that it played much easier for me. Anyways I may have to try and save up for the more expensive one if I can't find something around 1k.
I'm curious about trying the Stearn model as well. Wessex has a lot I'd love to try but I haven't gotten a chance to yet.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by RConrad » Sat Dec 28, 2019 10:04 am

harrisonreed wrote:
Fri Dec 27, 2019 8:35 pm
I'm curious about trying the Stearn model as well. Wessex has a lot I'd love to try but I haven't gotten a chance to yet.
I'm going to pay them another visit sometime in the spring and give it another try then but from my limited experience with it I liked it. My only real issue with it is the price since it seems you could get a fairly nice used bass around there.

While I was at the showroom other than their two bass trombone I gave their Supertenor, Flugabone, Marching Baritone, Compensated Baritone and the Dolce Euphonium a try. I was impressed by how easy the Supertenor was to play and I was a bit surprised at how well their Flugabone played. The Dolce was pretty great so I understand why people like it so much now. The baritones were baritones. I almost tried their Duplex Euphonium but at that point I wanted to try the basses again since they were the main reason I'd gone. Will probably give their large bore tenor and the nicer small bore straight tenor a try next time.

I should also probably plan on attending Midwest next year too. Missed my chance to play some horns there. :(
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Thu Jan 09, 2020 11:14 am

OK, got the 7B last Friday. I was nervous opening it because though the case was not boxed, just wrapped in shipping paper and it came from Texas to Ohio. The gorillas at UPS must have taken pity on me this time because it came through unscathed! It came with a Schilke mp, so I tooted a few notes as soon as it was out of the case. Seemed stuffy, so I looked at the mouthpiece, and it was sized like a Bach 5G. I grabbed my 1.5G and boy did it open up. It has the bark at low ranges I was looking for. I got to get used to the trigger arrangements - my Holton's second trigger was only a half step and the King second trigger seems like a step and a half, so I got some learnin' to do. The slide isn't the best, but not the worst so I'll get it to my tech soon. The bummer of the situation is that the day after it arrived I got a bad sinus infection and haven't had a chance to play it against the Holton yet. Once I'm back at 100% I'll start a new post giving my comparison of the 7B vs. my TR180.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by BGuttman » Thu Jan 09, 2020 12:18 pm

The King 7B has a Gb 2nd trigger. It came with the triggers "split" like most basses, as opposed to the Glantz Bar used on the TR-180.

Most useful thing is that low C is exactly where the Bb horn 4th position is using both triggers. It can also serve as a way to calibrate your double trigger. I've often thought about having a G crook made, but other things have gotten in the way and I never did.

The two slides interchange. I've been able to make the 2nd trigger be F, but the 1st trigger is a very flat Gb in this case. I was able to make it an F/F, though what good it did was beyond me.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Wishbone » Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm

RConrad, when you say "the Wessex showroom" are you talking about their distribution center in Michigan? I once contacted them about visiting & trying some horns but was told they don't stock trombones there. This was like 5 years ago, have they changed their policy since then?
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by RConrad » Sun Jan 19, 2020 12:52 am

Wishbone wrote:
Fri Jan 17, 2020 2:30 pm
RConrad, when you say "the Wessex showroom" are you talking about their distribution center in Michigan? I once contacted them about visiting & trying some horns but was told they don't stock trombones there. This was like 5 years ago, have they changed their policy since then?
They actually just recently (within the last year) opened a showroom here in the Chicago area. It's out in Roselle just west of O'Hare. When I went they were actually packing up stuff for Midwest but they had a good selection of their trombones available for me to try out. I think the only trombones they didn't have on hand where a few of the "student" model horns and the more standard valve trombones.
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Sun Jan 19, 2020 11:28 am

I had contacted them through their website early on in my search with a few questions. Never got an answer...
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Thu Jan 30, 2020 8:10 pm

OK, had a chance to put this puppy through its paces. Two weeks of Remington warm-ups and playing whatever hit my fancy - etudes, David Concerto, bass bone jazz solo, wind ensemble music, etc. I didn't like the ergonomics - my left hand hurt after playing only a short time. I bought a used Neotech from my buddy and it sure helped. My forearm aches a bit after a long session but I've been playing my lighter 3B almost exclusively for a few years so no surprise there. I figure it will pass like it did when I was playing my Holton TR180 regularly. The Neotech gets in the way of the second valve trigger but I plan on having it modified to match my new grip. Otherwise, damn does this horn sing! I was playing tenor parts on it with no issues and great tone on my 1 1/2G, which was difficult on the Holton. The King still barks down low like I hoped it would, brighter tone than the Holton. IMHO, in line with the general consensus, great horn for big band and wind ensemble, not as much for orchestral work, or at least with me playing it. Considering my orchestra days are long past, I don't care. Happy camper! It renewed my excitement for playing trombone.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
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Re: Opinions on Wessex King 7B copy

Post by Kingfan » Wed Feb 12, 2020 3:11 pm

Somebody told me the 7B had a larger bore in the valve section than the slide, unlike the Duo Gravis that was the same bore all the way. In case anybody cares, I miked the bores of the valve tuning slides to be .56 (my cheap-o micrometer only goes 2 digits right of the decimal point) same as the slide. No wonder it has that DG sound.
I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
King 2B , 3B, 3B-F, 4B-F, 7B
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