TromboneChat

I just bought a trombone off of ebay, called an American Premier, and I cant find any information on it. Theres no serial number on it, the only identification is the words "American Premier" engraved into the bell. The seller told me that it's from the 1910's to 1930's, and it could be a stencil for a Martin trombone, but didnt give me any sources so take that with a grain of salt. The instrument itself is extremely small. The mouthpiece reciever barely fits my Shilke 51D, which is a small shank. Its silver plated, and has a fancy counterweight on the tuning slide. It plays extremely well. Excellent tone, very easy high register. The slide has a dent in it which slows it down a bit but I imagine once I fix it, it will work perfectly. I hope someone can help me find a bit of info on this instrument, I would really like to learn about it.


UPDATE
While cleaning it (a rather disgusting task) I discovered the number "11" on the inner and outer slide braces. I will post two new pics in a reply.


Thanks.

Looks intriguing. If it's very small bore (likely) you certainly will do better with a mouthpiece smaller than your quite large Schilke 51D. If the receiver is also small, you might try an Olds tenor trombone mouthpiece, which will have an undersized shank that might fit better. Perhaps an Olds 3 (ubiquitous) or even smaller Olds 4 (rarer).

Have fun!

Posaunus wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 4:04 pm Looks intriguing. If it's very small bore (likely) you certainly will do better with a mouthpiece smaller than your quite large Schilke 51D. If the receiver is also small, you might try an Olds tenor trombone mouthpiece, which will have an undersized shank that might fit better. Perhaps an Olds 3 (ubiquitous) or even smaller Olds 4 (rarer).

Have fun!

It actually came with an Olds 3. It fits a lot better. I used the 51D on my King 2B, I'm going to miss it a lot lol. I have a 6 1/2 al that fits a bit better but that isnt saying much. I tried the Olds 3 and I personally didnt like it but then again I played on it for less then 5 minutes so I will try playing on it for a week or so and see if I can get used to it/like it.

Thanks for the reply!

If you're one of those uncommon people for whom a 51D works on a small horn, the closest thing in the Olds universe is a 1 (not a 1☆, just a 1). They were the largest of the small-shank Olds trombone mouthpieces, and are the next most common after the 3. Of course, you could always have someone turn down the shank on a 51D.

As for who made it? Well, the counterweight makes me think Buescher.

Kind of in remarkable shape! Looking forward to hearing more about it!

What does the water key look like?

walldaja wrote: Tue Jul 09, 2019 6:10 am Kind of in remarkable shape! Looking forward to hearing more about it!

What does the water key look like?

Theres the water key. It also has the number "11" stamped on the inner and outer slide brace, I have attached the water key image here, I will add both onto the original post.

Here are the images I promised.

JohnL wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:50 pm If you're one of those uncommon people for whom a 51D works on a small horn, the closest thing in the Olds universe is a 1 (not a 1☆, just a 1). They were the largest of the small-shank Olds trombone mouthpieces, and are the next most common after the 3. Of course, you could always have someone turn down the shank on a 51D.

As for who made it? Well, the counterweight makes me think Buescher.

I looked up some Buescher trombones, it looks very similar to a True Tone Model 38.

Thanks for your reply, it helps a lot!

Made by Frank Holton from my research

"11" sounds like assembly numbers. Probably means nothing.

rzeilinger wrote: Sun Jun 01, 2025 12:46 am Made by Frank Holton from my research

I've seen some stuff linking "Premier American" to Martin (via Vega and the Standard Band Instrument Company), but it's pretty shaky. Is the connection to Holton definitive?

I was able to find a document on brasshistory.net with some pages from the 1931 Montgomery Ward catalog that show "Premier American" instruments. It's only a drawing, but the counterweight on the Premier American trombone looks a whole lot like this one. That same page also shows instruments from the Indiana Band Instrument Company, which was owned by the same people who owned Martin; it was a separate company, but used the workers and facilities of Martin.

So we know Montgomery Ward was buying instruments from Indiana Band at the same time they were selling "Premier American" brand instruments. What's missing is a specific link between the two. Given the nature of stencil brands, I suspect "Premier American" belonged to Montgomery Ward and would not be surprised if various companies made instruments that were sold under that name.

Not definitive but items on the horn look like Holton pieces. I'll take Martin.
I have 2 Pan Americans that are clearly Martin stencils so I'll go with Martin.

JohnL wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:50 pm If you're one of those uncommon people for whom a 51D works on a small horn, the closest thing in the Olds universe is a 1 (not a 1☆, just a 1). They were the largest of the small-shank Olds trombone mouthpieces, and are the next most common after the 3. Of course, you could always have someone turn down the shank on a 51D.

As for who made it? Well, the counterweight makes me think Buescher.

My Olds 18 small shank is waaay bigger than my 1 and 8.

rzeilinger wrote: Thu Jul 17, 2025 3:22 am

JohnL wrote: Mon Jul 08, 2019 10:50 pm If you're one of those uncommon people for whom a 51D works on a small horn, the closest thing in the Olds universe is a 1 (not a 1☆, just a 1). They were the largest of the small-shank Olds trombone mouthpieces, and are the next most common after the 3. Of course, you could always have someone turn down the shank on a 51D.

As for who made it? Well, the counterweight makes me think Buescher.

My Olds 18 small shank is waaay bigger than my 1 and 8.

The 18 was Olds' baritone (bass-baritone was Olds' term back then) bugle mouthpiece. It might work for some people on a small bore trombone (never say never), but I wouldn't expect the throat and backbore to be a good match (being designed for something with a much larger bore). Mine, at least, has the typical undersize Olds shank.