Bass Trombone - Dream Horn

[ithinknot]

[a sound] that fits with the people I work with. It needs to be easy to play with facility all over the range.

Of course - for your core professional tools. But at the risk of drifting off-topic, I find this interesting within the context of having a larger stable - or, say, compared to the classic cars...

What were the heartbreakers, the instruments you've been tempted to hold onto just because they were a perfect example of Their Thing, even if the sound was far outside of today's norms or the handling was a bit too dangerous in the rain?

[Crazy4Tbone86]

What is a dream horn ? For me it must have feel, sound and playability. When I pick it up and play that first note, it needs to feel 'wow'....every day, month and year. It needs to help me get to the sound I want to make, and one that fits with the people I work with. It needs to be easy to play with facility all over the range.
There's a lot of very expensive instruments out there that don't tick those boxes. I have six bass instruments that tick the boxes....that's stupidly lucky...or greedy. There are two uber examples that are beyond what I would have thought possible....again , I'm very lucky.
What are they ? There's no point in saying....they are not for sale and you can't buy something the same...and other people might hate them.

Chris

Chris makes some very solid points. It really does not matter "what brand" or "what model" you play. If you find something that creates magic for you, consider yourself very fortunate and go with it! It is of no consequence what others think of your equipment. Just enjoy that special connection you have with the instrument and make great music!

As Chris states, a "dream instrument" makes it easy for you to have facility over the entire range of the instrument. In essence, a "dream instrument" should accentuate your strengths and help you overcome your weaknesses with greater ease. A "dream instrument" should feel like a partner that is there to help you through your challenges and always allows you to shine on music that comes more naturally for you.

[bassboneman69]

Mine is being built as we speak!

Aidan...what are you having made?????

[EOlson9]

I find this thread rather fascinating. The vast majority of contributors are favoring or "dreaming" of bass trombones with the more narrow tapers like Kings and Conns. I know that many people love the older Conns, but I am surprised to see that the Kings have such a following. I am not able to get my "ideal bass trombone sound" on those models....they play too bright for me.

I favor a broader sound that requires a wider-taper bell....of the Bach 50 tradition. Thus, my dream horn is something that I am in the process of collecting parts to build. It will probably look something like this: Shires BII 7GM bell, Shires C tuning slide (might end up being a seamed tuning slide), double Instrument Innovations axials, and a .562-.578 dual bore slide (might end up being similar to the Shires Bollinger slide).

I am surprised that there have not been more people "dreaming" of a bass trombone that has a broader taper bell. For me, some of it might be sound concept......I probably have a different bass trombone sound that I am trying to achieve. A bigger part of it is that I require larger equipment in order to achieve a bass trombone sound. If others can achieve the same sound that I seeking on more compact equipment.....kudos to them!

Since I already have a Gen 2 62H, I want the DG for tighter sound for pit orchestras and such.

[bassboneman69]

Please do tell.

Well, Holton 185 is having levers split so I can actually use it... very excited for how that turns out. Also have Benn Hansson building me a bell section to end all bell sections, it'll be a monster instrument when done.

Youre killing me kid!!

[Burgerbob]

Not to question your point about your 185 but I'm a bit confused. As the 185 was available as either a single valve instrument OR with the bird's nest plug in did someone before you make this into a dependent trigger setup? Any chance you have a pic of the horn? ALWAYS curious when someone has one that's unique. Thanks.

It may be a bird's nest, but it's still a dependent horn! I don't have any pictures of the levers specifically, but the 2nd valve lever overlaps the first. You can go from two valves to one, but not the other way around- no rollers or anything.

Youre killing me kid!!

No spoilers!

[imsevimse]

Not to question your point about your 185 but I'm a bit confused. As the 185 was available as either a single valve instrument OR with the bird's nest plug in did someone before you make this into a dependent trigger setup? Any chance you have a pic of the horn? ALWAYS curious when someone has one that's unique. Thanks.

It may be a bird's nest, but it's still a dependent horn! I don't have any pictures of the levers specifically, but the 2nd valve lever overlaps the first. You can go from two valves to one, but not the other way around- no rollers or anything.

Youre killing me kid!!

No spoilers!

I know what you mean. I have two 185. One has been split and is F/D and the other is as the original with a hopeless dependant setup. You have to be an acrobat with your thumb to go from one valve to two valves and vice versa. I think this horn solved the e-pull problem, but was not really designed with heavy trigger work in mind. If you plan everything and avoid all fast switches from one to two valves then the horn becomes better. My original is in F/Eb and I think this is better in this case because you can then play all notes on either one or two valves and thus cover most passages. In combination with false tones I have found that the big band parts can be played more easy. It is then a better option than a single for sure but for modern bigband charts the triggers need to be split. I can see why you want that done These Holton basses sound gorgeous.

/Tom

[octavposaune]

Hey Bill,

Aidans 185 has a birds nest. I am going to convert it to split levers while leaving the original lever intact for future owners.

Aidans 185 is a great horn!

Benn

[spencercarran]

for future owners.

Just assuming upfront that he won't hang on to it longterm

[elmsandr]

I have three...

NY Bach 50. It is great. Full throated big sound. But only a single valve. I have a period Bach valve that I will make into a plug-in one of these days....

NY Bach 45; this is weird. 9.5" Bell, set up to take my modular valve sections. Currently on a single or double trubore section. VERY lightweight and very fun. Intonation is a PITA on this, but it is a great non-huge bass sound that you just don't get with other equipment.

Conn Fuchs... This one doesn't play yet. Just a little more work to get it done, but I have a new M&W slide that works with it (and with BACH style tapers) that is absolutely F&^$@#-ing FANTASTIC. Matt, when you read this, do bother me to send you this bell section to clean up and add a drop-in valve. Make it a daily driver... it deserves it.

Cheers,
Andy

[WGWTR180]

Not to question your point about your 185 but I'm a bit confused. As the 185 was available as either a single valve instrument OR with the bird's nest plug in did someone before you make this into a dependent trigger setup? Any chance you have a pic of the horn? ALWAYS curious when someone has one that's unique. Thanks.

It may be a bird's nest, but it's still a dependent horn! I don't have any pictures of the levers specifically, but the 2nd valve lever overlaps the first. You can go from two valves to one, but not the other way around- no rollers or anything.

Youre killing me kid!!

No spoilers!

Thanks Aiden! All of the others I've seen have already been converted to split triggers. And sorry I knew it was dependent-hadn't had enough coffee before typing!!! Looks great. Enjoy!!

[WGWTR180]

I'm stuck with this engineering marvel for now.

[d00n]

Old thread, I know... I enjoyed reading your responses, so I thought I'd chip in.

Chris (Fossil) was speaking about having a horn that compliments your playing, and I feel that is arguably the most important aspect of a horn, whether or not it's your holy grail. That being said, I do really enjoy the wider throats of the Bach 50s. I've never been lucky enough to play a 50 made in NY/MV, but I have played my teacher's MV 42B, and I loved every bit of it. I'd love to get my hands on an original NY/MV 50B, have a tech fab up a Marston birdsnest valve, and just revel in the Peebles bell while being able to keep up with all the low Bs that come my way.

I'm in the process of securing an original MV 45B, and that may be the closest I ever get to my dream 50 (I have a feeling the prices are only going to go further out of my price range, and the unmodified ones are going to become more and more collectible). If I like it, I'll have someone give it the Kleinhammer Marston valve treatment, and if I don't, I'll sell it and probably regret it for the rest of my life.

For now, I'll stick with my 90s 50A3 that was built in baroque tuning for whatever reason

[Kbiggs]

Every Bach bass I’ve played has had a low pitch problem. I’ve always had a tech cut the T-slide legs and receivers down by about 3/8” or so. If I have the T-slide out about 1/4” I’m usually in tune at about A=440.

It hasn’t been a problem on my 42—yet. I usually play with that T-slide out about 1/8” to 1/4”. I’m sure one day I’ll play in a group at A=444 and I’ll have to play all my F’s and Bb’s in alternate positions!

[fwbassbone]

I would have to say the Greenhoe GB5-3G that is my main horn now.

Well I got a new Edwards B502 AR and it's become my main horn so I have to amend the above answer.

[Cotboneman]

modernized

I'm not sophisticated enough to know the differences. My King 7B is dream enough for me.

I'm with you on that one. I have a 25 year old Getzen 1062 that is like that old coat with holes that we all have in our closets, but fits great and keeps us so warm. Now I've modernized with a Bach 50AF , but I'm about to have the Getzen restored, because it's been that good over the years.

[Pezza]

Right now, due to medical restrictions, my King 5B is all the bass trombone I need or want!
Tho I would love to try a Bach 45.