What’s the deal with steel ??

Post by **Matt K** » Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:11 am

1.008" = 25.60mm; Doug lists a 5G at ~25.65mm and 1.01", so it's .002" difference. It's totally believable to me a Mt. Vernon 5G would be closer to a .265" throat rather than the .276" indicated on the spec sheet. A 5GS is supposed to be .261". Remember, there's a lot of variance with the Mt. Vernon pieces.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:31 am

RustBeltBass wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:30 am What I do not yet understand is this:

On their website the description of the Sonny Ausman model reads as follows:” ….truly classic design based on a Bach NY 5G.“

The stats are: 1.008 0.264

I am not a tenor player and can not judge if the measurements are the same as an old 5G or not. But I just find it hard to believe that a design SO different from a traditional design, combined with a very different material can result in something even remotely close to the NY characteristics. Mr. Ausman sounded phenomenal and he must have been happy with it, but it confuses me as to their approach to mouthpiece design.

In Giddings parlance, "based on" certainly does not mean that measurements are "identical to!"
Giddings designs are indeed rather different from the Bach pieces so many of are are accustomed to, but that doesn't mean that a Bach piece may not have been a starting point in the design ultimately approved and played by Sonny Ausman - who probably wanted something similar to, but better than, what the Bach 5G provided.
Perhaps we should get Sonny to comment on this?

In a parallel vein, the Giddings Harry Watters piece may be "similar in size to a Bach 6½AL" - but it's (in my opinion) a better mouthpiece!

RustBeltBass · Post by **RustBeltBass** » Wed Mar 22, 2023 12:24 pm

I’d definitely love to hear what the creation process is like for this model, I doubt Mr. Ausman is on here though.

mikerspencer · Post by **mikerspencer** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:35 pm

Matt K wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:51 am External shape aside, the Harry Watters appears to be the closest Giddings piece to a traditional design that I've seen. Everything else tends to run a bit deeper and have a fairly large throat, comparatively.

My gripe with the Giddings HW is the rim profile, it's so round there's almost support. It's an interesting experience to play it, but I'm glad I got secondhand.

Posaunus · Post by **Posaunus** » Thu Mar 23, 2023 7:42 pm

mikerspencer wrote: Thu Mar 23, 2023 4:35 pm
Matt K wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 9:51 am External shape aside, the Harry Watters appears to be the closest Giddings piece to a traditional design that I've seen. Everything else tends to run a bit deeper and have a fairly large throat, comparatively.
My gripe with the Giddings HW is the rim profile, it's so round there's almost support. It's an interesting experience to play it, but I'm glad I got secondhand.

Works for Harry, works for me. But (apparently) I'm one of the few who can play a Christian Lindberg mouthpiece.
And I'm not a fan of most Bach mouthpieces. I guess we're all a bit different.

ssking2b · Post by **ssking2b** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:19 pm

hyperbolica wrote: Wed Nov 04, 2020 2:30 pm Parker makes screw rim pieces in stainless for trombone. Houser is said to be coming out with stainless trombone pieces. Kelly makes an inexpensive stainless one piece. Usual suspects, Giddings and Loud.

Houser makes Parker mouthpieces. He also uses a titanium H cote on in the stainless rims. I’ve had many discussions with Mr. Houser about stainless steel and its qualities and how trying other manufacturers stainless steel mouthpieces seem to leave me flat mostly. The focus of the sound began to disappear as I got softer by the time I reached mezzo forte, the Mouthpieces were just not focused. I currently owned 2 Parker mouthpieces one for bass Trombone, and one for euphonium actually manufactured by Houser. He uses implant grade stainless steel. His titanium H coating is also a form of coating stainless steel with titanium borrowed from the implant industry. Houser Mouthpieces do not lose their focus and sound equally great when playing the horn, or hearing a recording.

Mr. Houser is currently working on a prototype of my jazz tenor trombone mouthpiece in implant grade stainless steel. It will be a two piece unit with a cup rim section in stainless steel H coated in black titanium, and a bronze screw in back bore.

ssking2b · Post by **ssking2b** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:30 pm

Doug Elliott wrote: Mon Nov 09, 2020 6:52 pm Some people react to stainless, whatever the reason.. that's why they don't use it for implants.

Yes it is used quite successfully, the type Houser uses. To stop any wear and render the piece chemically inert the titanium H cote method is used. Most Stainless/titanium H cote pieces are used on large body parts like hips and shoulders.

ssking2b · Post by **ssking2b** » Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:32 pm

Burgerbob wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:30 pm Yes, Giddings and perhaps Houser make pieces in titanium.

The G&W titanium pieces have no focus at all and cost a fortune.

trombonedemon · Post by **trombonedemon** » Sat Apr 01, 2023 7:16 pm

ssking2b wrote: Thu Mar 30, 2023 2:32 pm
Burgerbob wrote: Tue Mar 14, 2023 3:30 pm Yes, Giddings and perhaps Houser make pieces in titanium.
The G&W titanium pieces have no focus at all and cost a fortune.

They seem to have tin like, compact raspy sound to me. They would do well in a big band setting. Very little sympathetic vibrations. He doesn't have big enough mouthpieces for me.

bassbone1993 · Post by **bassbone1993** » Thu Aug 14, 2025 7:04 pm

I'd be curious how the ar Resonance steel tops would play given that the backbore is still brass.

ssking2b · Post by **ssking2b** » Fri Aug 15, 2025 12:26 pm

Parker no longer offers the Lance LaDuke euph piece, or any of the other pieces he used to offer. He has some one other than Houser making him a set of 1 piece SS trombone mouthpieces. I have no Idea what grade of SS they are.

CalgaryTbone · Post by **CalgaryTbone** » Fri Aug 15, 2025 2:43 pm

Posaunus wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 11:31 am
RustBeltBass wrote: Wed Mar 22, 2023 10:30 am What I do not yet understand is this:

On their website the description of the Sonny Ausman model reads as follows:” ….truly classic design based on a Bach NY 5G.“

The stats are: 1.008 0.264

I am not a tenor player and can not judge if the measurements are the same as an old 5G or not. But I just find it hard to believe that a design SO different from a traditional design, combined with a very different material can result in something even remotely close to the NY characteristics. Mr. Ausman sounded phenomenal and he must have been happy with it, but it confuses me as to their approach to mouthpiece design.
In Giddings parlance, "based on" certainly does not mean that measurements are "identical to!"
Giddings designs are indeed rather different from the Bach pieces so many of are are accustomed to, but that doesn't mean that a Bach piece may not have been a starting point in the design ultimately approved and played by Sonny Ausman - who probably wanted something similar to, but better than, what the Bach 5G provided.
Perhaps we should get Sonny to comment on this?

In a parallel vein, the Giddings Harry Watters piece may be "similar in size to a Bach 6½AL" - but it's (in my opinion) a better mouthpiece!

If I remember the story correctly, Sonny was having an allergic reaction to brass, and he brought his favorite old NY Bach 5G to G & W to get a new mouthpiece based on the Bach. They may have gone through a few prototypes before he found the one that worked best for him. As far as measurements - different maufacturers measure in slightly different places on the mouthpiece, and that could result in the specs looking a bit different. Also, they may have altered the specs slightly in the development of the mouthpiece to bring the sound or response to be closer to the original when a different metal was being used.

I tried a couple of the stainless steel mouthpieces. Ultimately, I never completely fell in love with the sound, although I did find them to be a better fit to my euphonium. The response is good on them.

Jim Scott

Jbeckett · Post by **Jbeckett** » Fri Aug 15, 2025 5:41 pm

Adding to a lot of opinions here
FWIW

Ivan does a phenomenal job. He can copy your brass piece to an extent with one of his blanks. If you’ve got. Scott spun 95d, he can get it pretty close.

The NYO and a few others have been great for me. His Contra piece is stellar.

He uses 304 stainless from what I’m told.

Dave Houser is also excellent. I use a Steve Dunkel model with a 30.25mm (29.3 actual with my calipers) and his Dunkel shank. I’m getting him to make me a couple of bronze shanks for the Dunkel. Since I also play an Elliott bass piece(s), and a LIBRASSCO Eon 750 on tenor

Dave uses 316 stainless.

Different alloys make a difference. Also, bronze shanks do, and he’s making those for his tuba pieces.

He no longer makes pieces for Parker. I don’t blame him.

He’ll do some custom copies as well, if you ask nicely.
His Dunkel rims do fit Elliott LB cups, and LT with the old 4g rims he made.

It all goes back to what works best for you. Charlie Vernon once said that when you stop trying new equipment, you tend to die as a player.

WGWTR180 · Post by **WGWTR180** » Sat Aug 16, 2025 6:59 am

Cold sounding.

What’s the deal with steel ??

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