25%Tariffs

[BGuttman]

Wouldn't you know it....I spoke too soon. Just got a notification from UPS on import duties due on my incoming K&H. Fortunately just $79, or around 3.5% of the purchase price. I know it isn't VAT, so it must be pre-existing tariffs that were already in place on EU imports? Still a lot better than the threatened 25%.

There have been import duties (essentially the same thing as tariffs) on foreign made goods almost since there was a USA. Before he became Vice-President, Chester Arthur was a Customs Collector of the Port of New York. And he became President on the assassination of James Garfield in 1881.

US Citizens are exempted from duties on goods up to a certain amount. You may be paying duties on whatever exceeds that limit. Duties vary by what is being imported. You can research this on the US Customs Web Site if it hasn't been taken down as some kind of Elon Cost Saving.

[JMcV]

Thanks Bruce, that explains it. And why I haven't had to pay these duties on smaller purchases like JK mouthpieces.

[LeTromboniste]

Wouldn't you know it....I spoke too soon. Just got a notification from UPS on import duties due on my incoming K&H. Fortunately just $79, or around 3.5% of the purchase price. I know it isn't VAT, so it must be pre-existing tariffs that were already in place on EU imports? Still a lot better than the threatened 25%.

Those import duties are likely not a tarif nor a tax, they're a fee UPS charges you for handling the importation for you. You're lucky they're only $79. I've gotten invoices for these fees from UPS and FedEx for $200+ in the past. They're part of the reason those companies can charge slightly less for shipping than the public postal system while still making a profit: they catch up by then charging the recipient those fees, with a completely unpredictable and opaque fee structure.

In total, when taking these fees into account, shipping with the private companies is always more expensive overall that what the public post (USPS for you) charges, as the public services typically charge the sender just slightly more for shipping (although sometimes its still less than UPS even there), but then don't charge the recipient for customs brokerage.

[Bach5G]

To find information on US tariffs, the relevant resource is the Harmonized Tariff Schedule of the United States (HTS), maintained by the United States International Trade Commission (USITC).

The HTS is a comprehensive database that lists all tariff rates and statistical categories for goods imported into the United States.

https://hts.usitc.gov/

[MomSoldMyHolton]

Much of the material to make a brass instrument is not produced in the USA. It doesn't matter what brand you're talking about. So saying "Made in USA", while I absolutely support that ideal, is an ill.informed, simplistic view point.

The notion that tariffs are permanent is short-sighted, ill informed, and simplistic. The USA has effectively been paying unfairly with VAT for many years. We are doing "reciprocal" tariffs. The comment "Made in the USA" is in relation to the fact that the point is to negotiate better trade deals, part of which involves manufacturing (in other industries as well), and sourcing materials from less exploitative sources and avoiding bad import deals, or negotiating better ones. Sourcing materials where there are not unfair trade deals, so that there is actually an incentive to make everything like we used to in the USA. The point in many instances (we are not just talking about trombones and brass instruments) is to source everything we can either in the United States, negotiate more fair trade deals, and bring manufacturing back to the United States. Have a little faith. Read a book and relax. I recommend "The Art of the Deal".

I saw how this movie ends in Atlantic City in the late 80s with bankruptcy and the little guy holding the bag. I’ll take a pass on reading the book he didn’t actually write!

[WGWTR180]

The notion that tariffs are permanent is short-sighted, ill informed, and simplistic. The USA has effectively been paying unfairly with VAT for many years. We are doing "reciprocal" tariffs. The comment "Made in the USA" is in relation to the fact that the point is to negotiate better trade deals, part of which involves manufacturing (in other industries as well), and sourcing materials from less exploitative sources and avoiding bad import deals, or negotiating better ones. Sourcing materials where there are not unfair trade deals, so that there is actually an incentive to make everything like we used to in the USA. The point in many instances (we are not just talking about trombones and brass instruments) is to source everything we can either in the United States, negotiate more fair trade deals, and bring manufacturing back to the United States. Have a little faith. Read a book and relax. I recommend "The Art of the Deal".

I saw how this movie ends in Atlantic City in the late 80s with bankruptcy and the little guy holding the bag. I’ll take a pass on reading the book he didn’t actually write!

Exactly!! BTW why did mom sell your Holton? And which Holton did she sell?

[harrisonreed]

I think the current exemption amount is $800 on imported stuff, at least for personal use. If you go over that you might have to pay duties in the USA.

Source - I am going to buy Line Audio mics from the UK (mics made in Sweden). If I stay below $800, no duties are due according to their policies.

There are similar limits when you fly into the USA.

[MomSoldMyHolton]

I saw how this movie ends in Atlantic City in the late 80s with bankruptcy and the little guy holding the bag. I’ll take a pass on reading the book he didn’t actually write!

Exactly!! BTW why did mom sell your Holton? And which Holton did she sell?

The people that think this guy is a great, competent businessman didn’t see him bankrupt in the late 80s with his creditors putting him on an allowance like a child.

Ha, she had a friend who’s son started playing and I guess she thought since I was away at college and wasn’t playing at the time she’d do her friend a solid. Wouldn’t be surprised if she just gave it away- been pissed about it for years, lol! Pretty sure it was a TR-188.

[Bach5G]

A parcel service in Pt. Roberts WA closed down after 24 years. This is what they said:

“It is with great sadness; however, with all the government changes and tariffs, it has affected our business four times worse than COVID ever did and only continues to decline at a rapid pace."

Pt Roberts is dependent on Canadian business as its only land access is through Canada.

The story:

https://www.delta-optimist.com/highligh ... e-10427812

[Posaunus]

A parcel service in Pt. Roberts WA closed down after 24 years. This is what they said:

“It is with great sadness; however, with all the government changes and tariffs, it has affected our business four times worse than COVID ever did and only continues to decline at a rapid pace."

Pt Roberts is dependent on Canadian business as its only land access is through Canada.

[Digidog]

Well..... These last days have been bizarre, in a way I think nobody could imagine.

The promotion of stupidity, ignorance and demented societal implementation of personal deficits is on a scale we haven't witnessed since the German and Soviet dictatorships of the 30's.

I would say that these tariffs is a way of breaking down the domestic economy and financial conditions to a state of emergency, dysfunction and provoked hostility from the rest of the world where the orange douche can use it as an excuse and a leverage to fully dismantle the state and its institutions to create a complete single rule, a totalitarian state.

"He who saves his Country does not violate any Law"......

[tromboneVan]

“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. The inherent Virtue of Socialism is the Equal Sharing of Miseries” —Churchill

[Posaunus]

I am currently in Europe, where the locals are confused and astonished at the idiocy coming out of Washington. Anger is welling up here. Tomorrow I will visit the Normandy D-Day beaches and cemeteries where Americans were once respected as saviors of Western civilization. Unfortunately, the U.S.A. is no longer considered the shining light of opportunity and fairness that it was just a few short years ago.
The world has changed irreversibly due to our abandoning our position of leadership in exchange for selfishness and thirst for power.
We are no longer trusted or trustworthy.
We have brought this upon ourselves.

[tromboneVan]

Liberation Day.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

[SwissTbone]

Liberation Day.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

Sorry. I tried to keep out of politics. But... someone really believe what's written there? Are people really naive enough to swallow all this misleading information? Incredible.

I'll keep out again. But this I had to say.

[tromboneVan]

Liberation Day.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

Sorry. I tried to keep out of politics. But... someone really believe what's written there? Are people really naive enough to swallow all this misleading information? Incredible.

I'll keep out again. But this I had to say.

Literal current events. I guess reality is triggering when you live in a bubble of mainstream media propaganda.

“Socialism only works in two places: Heaven where they don't need it and hell where they already have it.”
― Ronald Reagan

[Bach5G]

It’s funny to read “when you live in a bubble of mainstream media propaganda”.

Yesterday, my wife and I flipped between several stations including CBC, CNBC, MSNBC and CNN, as the Dow dropped under 39,000. Everybody was talking tariffs and economics, except Al Jazeera, which was talking Gaza. And then there was Fox which was talking about Biden’s immigration policies. Tell me about propaganda. Tell me about a bubble.

All of this chaos is caused by one person. None of it is necessary.

It’s also funny (in an ironic way) to read quotes from Churchill and Reagan about Soviet Russia. Putin’s Russia is America’s new best friend.

[tromboneVan]

Trump's Presidential Address 2025 Remix

[Digidog]

“Socialism is the philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. The inherent Virtue of Socialism is the Equal Sharing of Miseries” —Churchill

If this is the definition you go by, then the orange douche most definitely is a socialist since it so generously shares its anger, grief, desperate need for vengeance, superstition, ignorance, fear of weakness, mental illness and whatnot of personal shortcomings and deficits with the rest of the world - the rest of us. I, for one, haven't asked for a mobile pile of crap to impose itself on my conditions and situations, but here I am, having to take it.

Maybe it could even be classified as a communist, whereas Churchill defined one thusly: "A communist is like a crocodile: when it opens its mouth you cannot tell whether it is trying to smile or preparing to eat you up".

Trump's Presidential Address 2025 Remix

A classic example of demented delusion and a disturbed perception and view of the world. The White House is now an asylum, rather than the office of an administration.

[Bach5G]

I suspect Russian socialism has been over for 35 years. What is left is the authoritarian state, which is indistinguishable from organized crime, and the secret police.

But it appears that Russia is America’s new best friend.

Forget Churchill and Reagan. Edward Grey is back in style.

[tromboneVan]

"From 1789-1913, we were a tariff-backed nation, and the United States was proportionally the wealthiest it has ever been -- Then in 1913, for reasons unknown to mankind, they established the income tax -- We are going to start being smart and we are going to start being wealthy again." DJT

[EriKon]

Not sure if it helps to just share several quotes without context. Don't measure people by what they say but by what they do.

[Digidog]

"From 1789-1913, we were a tariff-backed nation, and the United States was proportionally the wealthiest it has ever been -- Then in 1913, for reasons unknown to mankind, they established the income tax -- We are going to start being smart and we are going to start being wealthy again." DJT

I guess neither of you are aware that 1913 was 112 years ago?

[Digidog]

Don't measure people by what they say but by what they do.

When you see what they do, it's already done and often too late.

Most politicians, and definitely the would-be autocrats, actually mean to pursue the policies they say they will if they come to power. There are no real examples throughout history, where an aspiring autocrat not has imposed autocratic policies when in power, after a campaigning where stating they will do so when possible.

So: With politicians, the lesson we should learn is that they always will - or at least will make a serious try - to make their stated policies come through if and when they come to power.

[tromboneVan]

Liberation Day.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

"WEEK 11 WINS: President Trump Unleashes Economic Prosperity"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

^^^

This should be plenty context for just Week 11... Being an American, versus a European projecting what they want the USA to be, like their country, is the conflict. America should in my opinion put its own people first, before the needs and interests of those in Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, etc. I think that might be the context. Why would any nation put the interests of other countries before their own? As stated earlier in this thread, the tariffs would bring manufacturing back to the United States, as well as prompt renegotiating bad for America trade deals, both which are occurring... Of course the EU is pissed about it, because the US has been sold out to bad, weak policies for too long. People voted to see the change that is occurring and evidenced by the not-so-convenient facts of this working. Manufacturing particularly of various EV car components, for example, Honda & Nissan, others opening plants in the US. Many events occurring which just a few weeks ago some said were impossible and would never happen. Sorry, but not sorry that every day Americans are happy to see policies put into effect, that will improve life for regular blue collar Americans in America occurring.

[bassbone1993]

I'm just going to assume the tariffs are going to come back to bite us at some point.

[Posaunus]

I'm just going to assume the tariffs are going to come back to bite us at some point.

Fairly safe assumption.
If not, pretty much every professional economist is wrong.
(But what do they know. They're probably all "socialists.")

[bassbone1993]

I'm just going to assume the tariffs are going to come back to bite us at some point.

Fairly safe assumption.
If not, pretty much every professional economist is wrong.
(But what do they know. They're probably all "socialists.")

I'm not an economist, but I am a social worker. Right now things are actively on fire so I'm assuming everything will be at some point

[Digidog]

Liberation Day.

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

"WEEK 11 WINS: President Trump Unleashes Economic Prosperity"

https://www.whitehouse.gov/articles/202 ... rosperity/

^^^

This should be plenty context for just Week 11... Being an American, versus a European projecting what they want the USA to be, like their country, is the conflict. America should in my opinion put its own people first, before the needs and interests of those in Sweden, Germany, Switzerland, etc. I think that might be the context. Why would any nation put the interests of other countries before their own? As stated earlier in this thread, the tariffs would bring manufacturing back to the United States, as well as prompt renegotiating bad for America trade deals, both which are occurring... Of course the EU is pissed about it, because the US has been sold out to bad, weak policies for too long. People voted to see the change that is occurring and evidenced by the not-so-convenient facts of this working. Manufacturing particularly of various EV car components, for example, Honda & Nissan, others opening plants in the US. Many events occurring which just a few weeks ago some said were impossible and would never happen. Sorry, but not sorry that every day Americans are happy to see policies put into effect, that will improve life for regular blue collar Americans in America occurring.

You're hallucinating.

Regardless of what you have been led to belive, this is not how modern economy and financial systems work. The prospects laid out for the tariffs are based on lies and deliberately misleading statements and conditions.

Besides the economic turmoil that now is churned up, the tariffs and the financial ruckus are not what's bothering me. If you truly believe that the material welfare of the regular blue-collar American worker is the issue for me, or even a remote consideration for the orange douche, you are misled and tricked into a political process that in the end will deprive you of anything and everything you today take for granted.

The orange douche isn't bereaving me my constitutional rights, nor is it jeopardizing my health and my immunity from diseases and my capability to pay for my commodities and my living. I am concerned about what is happening to the common regular U.S.A. that once was a source of many desired influences, knowledge and culture, but now rapidly declines into a second grade backwards, totalitarian, fundamentalist state.

Have you f.ex. seen the last decades of development of life expectancy in the U.S. - even among the wealthiest percentile? This administration is going to significantly widen the negative gap to f.ex. Europe with its policies.

[tbdana]

I'm not clear what the tariff game plan is.

I keep hearing about how this will benefit Americans after "temporary pain." But no one ever says what those benefits will be. What will they be to me? I'm going to have to pay even higher prices as inflation heats up again, and there will be shortages of products I buy, especially food and electronics.

So, after these "weeks" of "temporary pain," and reignited inflation, what are the concrete benefits that I will realize?

Will prices come down a few weeks from now? Highly doubtful. Within a year? Still, no. Will wages rise? Absolutely not.

So specifically and concretely, what good will this do for the average American worker?

[tromboneVan]

I'm just going to assume the tariffs are going to come back to bite us at some point.

Fairly safe assumption.
If not, pretty much every professional economist is wrong.
(But what do they know. They're probably all "socialists.")

Probably... and/or bought.

[bassbone1993]

I'm not clear what the tariff game plan is.

I keep hearing about how this will benefit Americans after "temporary pain." But no one ever says what those benefits will be. What will they be to me? I'm going to have to pay even higher prices as inflation heats up again, and there will be shortages of products I buy, especially food and electronics.

So, after these "weeks" of "temporary pain," and reignited inflation, what are the concrete benefits that I will realize?

Will prices come down a few weeks from now? Highly doubtful. Within a year? Still, no. Will wages rise? Absolutely not.

So specifically and concretely, what good will this do for the average American worker?

This is where I'm at. It's not clear what the actual benefits will be or how long its going to take to see the benefits. That info would probably come from economists, and the vast majority think the tariffs are beyond foolish.

[BGuttman]

I had planned to make a post explaining how tariffs work for the benefit of those who think they are going to pour money into the US at the expense of the rest of the world, but I'm not. This topic has gone a bit too political for our policy here and I'm going to lock it.

Maybe I'll unlock it (or maybe somebody else will; lobby your favorite Moderator) in a couple of weeks when things quiet down.