Trombone pet peeves

[AtomicClock]

I was probably playing music for 20 years before I realized this bizarre convention, which now peeves me.
Starting at or before a rehearsal letter/number is uncontroversial. But starting after one can be confusing. "Start 4 bars after letter K" and "Start on the 4th bar of letter K" mean the same thing musically, but different things logically. In the "after letter K" formulation, you skip only three bars between the letter and the starting point.

It's like telling a carpenter to cut 4 inches from the edge of the board, and they mark all 4 inches, but cut on the wrong side of the fourth.

[brassmedic]

I was probably playing music for 20 years before I realized this bizarre convention, which now peeves me.
Starting at or before a rehearsal letter/number is uncontroversial. But starting after one can be confusing. "Start 4 bars after letter K" and "Start on the 4th bar of letter K" mean the same thing musically, but different things logically. In the "after letter K" formulation, you skip only three bars between the letter and the starting point.

It's like telling a carpenter to cut 4 inches from the edge of the board, and they mark all 4 inches, but cut on the wrong side of the fourth.

If you think of "letter K" not as a measure, but as a marking at a barline, then it makes sense. Rehearsal letters are always placed at the barline, never over an entire measure.

[tbdana]

I just got back from a trombone choir rehearsal and I have a pet peeve: Slowing down. Why is it that a group of trombones always seems to slow down? They can't keep the tempo. Every damn thing finishes a slower tempo than it started. Drives me crazy (although, for me, crazy is walking distance).

[SGH]

During rehearsal, the inevitable cut-off just before our pickup notes after a long rest, and then skipping our pickup notes/phrase when resuming.

[LeTromboniste]

I just got back from a trombone choir rehearsal and I have a pet peeve: Slowing down. Why is it that a group of trombones always seems to slow down? They can't keep the tempo. Every damn thing finishes a slower tempo than it started. Drives me crazy (although, for me, crazy is walking distance).

That's definitely a real tendency, that has become a cliché and reputation for the trombone. To the point where sometimes I get told by trombone colleagues that I'm rushing something when I'm actually steady and they're slowing down (to be fair in some cases it's been true that I'm rushing, but in many cases it's quite clear to me that I'm with everyone else in the larger group). I work hard to get my students to not fall into that tendency and not perpetuate the reputation.

I am convinced that some of it is the result of the trombone world's obsession with evenness of tone, volume and articulation. That evenness can sometimes make things static, and fail to generate the momentum and tension that sustains the phrase going forward.

[CalgaryTbone]

One of my favorite quotes attributed to Ed Anderson, whose career was with the Cleveland Orchestra and at Indiana University - the greatest compliment you can get from a conductor is : "Trombones, you are rushing a bit, and I would like more sound from you".

Still waiting to hear that!

Jim Scott

[Cmillar]

I just got back from a trombone choir rehearsal and I have a pet peeve: Slowing down. Why is it that a group of trombones always seems to slow down? They can't keep the tempo. Every damn thing finishes a slower tempo than it started. Drives me crazy (although, for me, crazy is walking distance).

Uhh.....maybe there's a time and a place for a little toe-tapping in order to get some kin-esthetic response to the music?

[brassmedic]

I just got back from a trombone choir rehearsal and I have a pet peeve: Slowing down. Why is it that a group of trombones always seems to slow down? They can't keep the tempo. Every damn thing finishes a slower tempo than it started. Drives me crazy (although, for me, crazy is walking distance).

Uhh.....maybe there's a time and a place for a little toe-tapping in order to get some kin-esthetic response to the music?

Guarantee that will do nothing.

[Cmillar]

Uhh.....maybe there's a time and a place for a little toe-tapping in order to get some kin-esthetic response to the music?

Guarantee that will do nothing.

Well, I believe that some work at home with a metronome, some toe-tapping, body movement, dancing, clapping, play-along-with, etc. etc.....could work for most people.

Unfortunately, some people 'have it' and some don't 'have it' (an innate sense of inner time and rhythm, that is)

But I'm a fan of what the late Sam Burtis (via Carmine Caruso) said, in that it's helpful to tap your foot (or toes in your shoe) while practicing in order to help get the music 'into your body' and to get some kind of 'inner-physical' relationship to playing in good time.

These type of things can be done with groups of people as well in order to get everyone 'in synch'.

Singing along together, clapping together, dancing, etc..... whatever brings a group into 'synch' with each other.

Some will 'get it', some won't unfortunately. But, sense of time is what will determine how far one can mature and improve as a musician in any style of music.

As to Dana's problem....it is a drag to play with people that drag.

[tbdana]

Uhh.....maybe there's a time and a place for a little toe-tapping in order to get some kin-esthetic response to the music?

Oh, but they do! Even Jeff Reynolds does it. But all you have to do is look around at the toe-tappers to see that they are all tapping at different times, in different tempos, and often along with what they are playing rather than what the beat actually is.

And I do have to say, the dragging usually begins in two places: (1) the bass trombones for some inexplicable reason and (2) tenor trombones whenever they come to a difficult passage. They'll slow down to get the notes rather than keep the time and clam or ghost some notes. The result is that every piece played, left to its own devices, becomes a ballad and would grind to an absolute halt if left to go on long enough. They'd freeze in time, like pillars of trombone salt falling into a black hole. It might actually end the universe. Very dangerous!

[Cmillar]

Uhh.....maybe there's a time and a place for a little toe-tapping in order to get some kin-esthetic response to the music?

Oh, but they do! Even Jeff Reynolds does it. But all you have to do is look around at the toe-tappers to see that they are all tapping at different times, in different tempos, and often along with what they are playing rather than what the beat actually is.

And I do have to say, the dragging usually begins in two places: (1) the bass trombones for some inexplicable reason and (2) tenor trombones whenever they come to a difficult passage. They'll slow down to get the notes rather than keep the time and clam or ghost some notes. The result is that every piece played, left to its own devices, becomes a ballad and would grind to an absolute halt if left to go on long enough. They'd freeze in time, like pillars of trombone salt falling into a black hole. It might actually end the universe. Very dangerous!

Love this!

On a side note, as much as I love ballads, beautiful transcriptions of great choral works, and other trombone choir pieces that show off our beautiful instrument, there’s a strange predomination of ‘slowish’ trombone choir written the last several years.

A symptom of our times? Mournful eulogies? And yet more slow mournful elegies?

Maybe it’s time for trombone choirs to revive all the great Bach Contrapunctus arrangements that have been done for trombones.

Those pieces make you swim or sink! And, you have to get your sense of rhythms together.

[brassmedic]

Unfortunately, some people 'have it' and some don't 'have it' (an innate sense of inner time and rhythm, that is)

But I'm a fan of what the late Sam Burtis (via Carmine Caruso) said, in that it's helpful to tap your foot (or toes in your shoe) while practicing in order to help get the music 'into your body' and to get some kind of 'inner-physical' relationship to playing in good time.

These type of things can be done with groups of people as well in order to get everyone 'in synch'.

Singing along together, clapping together, dancing, etc..... whatever brings a group into 'synch' with each other.

Some will 'get it', some won't unfortunately. But, sense of time is what will determine how far one can mature and improve as a musician in any style of music.

Why can't you get 'in synch' by playing your instruments together?

The problem with foot tapping as a remedy for a bad sense of rhythm is that it doesn't work. I observe players tapping their feet, and generally their foot tapping is not in time, and doesn't even synch up with what they are playing. Some people have discussed jazz or pop players who tap their feet as a type of dancing with the music. That's fine, but in the examples posted here, I don't think the foot tapping is what gives them a good sense of time; I think it's a reaction to their sense of time. I just don't see anyone who "fixed" their sense of time with foot tapping.