Sterling Silver Bells

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whitbey
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Sterling Silver Bells

Post by whitbey »

I have a sterling silver bell that I love. It is a on a 547 Edwards tenor. Edwards bought the brazed bells from Germany and spun them at the Edwards factory. The sound is wonderful. There is a wonderful set of dark overtones and the brighter overtones too. The horn seems to teach me to play better because it really respond when you do things right. No matter how loud you go, it sounds really nice. The only issue is when playing in a larger orchestra or band it does not ever get that edge that directors want to hear your time. So I use the horn for quintet and pretty stuff. I have a brass bell for the big stuff.

I would love to hear thoughts on the Conn sterling bell as it is spun I understand and the Bach electro-plate bells.

Also the small bore and alto horns. Anyone?

One horn I have seen and wondered about was the Getzen Dude. Sterling bell and lots of copper bracing.
Edwards Sterling bell 525/547
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Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
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BGuttman
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by BGuttman »

Not all Getzen Dude''s had Sterling bells.

The bracework is interesting, but is a nightmare if you need a repair -- it's just not adjustable in case you need to make a change. It was uncomfortable for me to hold, but others seemed to like it.
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bimmerman
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by bimmerman »

Disclaimer: I'm a materials and metallurgy geek, both on and off the clock. The different material options for trombones has always fascinated me.

I have always wondered about Edwards SS bells, I'd love to try one someday.

I have two sterling horns, a ~60s King 2B Silversonic (still HN White labelled) and a ~90/00s Sterling Silver Plus LT16M. I also have yellow brass versions of these horns. For those who don't know, the Silversonic is formed from a Sterling Silver sheet, just like a regular bell. It's ~92% silver ~8% copper if I'm remembering right. The Bach Sterling Silver Plus bell, on the other hand is literally elemental silver (~99.99%) that is electroformed/plated onto a mandrel to form the bell flare-- meaning, no brazing, no seams, it's all one piece of solid pure silver.

It's been a while since I directly compared them to their brass counterparts or to each other, but I'll try anyway from memory.

The King Silversonic is definitely heavier than the brass horn, and has a darker (lush-er?) and sweeter sound to my ears. It's a subtle difference. To me, the Silversonic takes more input from me before it wakes up and starts doing its thing, so responsiveness isn't as immediate or at as low a dynamic level as the brass horn. It holds together better at louder dynamics though.

The Bach Sterling Plus bell (at least on the small bore horn) is crazy lightweight and if you look at it wrong it has a new bell ding. It's noticeably lighter than the brass bell and is crazy responsive at all dynamics. The sound is a bit rounder, for lack of a better word. It's not dark or anything you'd associate with the Silversonic type bells-- smoother and livelier is how I'd describe it. It is such a fun bell to play and that response is just incredible. It wakes up and is ready to go, but holds together its tone at higher volumes. I haven't played Mahler 3 FFFFFF type volume on it, but it's worked very well in loud big bands, no blatty or crappy tone (at least, not because of the horn).

One of these days I've been meaning to take a video showing the difference between the various Bach bells (yellow, gold, sterling+)....but I've been spending my practice time working on my chop issues, so this won't be a soon-project. I've been keeping horn and mpc constant while working on that stuff.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

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BGuttman
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by BGuttman »

I'm pretty sure the Bach bell is electroformed. As such they can make it a lot thinner (lighter and livelier) that a hammered and spun bell.

Funny thing is, all the kids want SilverSonic trombones until they get one -- and then suddenly they discover they are pretty hard to play.
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conn88Hagmann
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by conn88Hagmann »

I tried a Conn 88H SGX.

Production was much harder. Very difficult to get it to speak quietly in the high register, Berg 3 orchestral pieces and Rhenish very hard work. (Should be on alto of course anyway but there it is).

I have a 3BF Ss, and I love it!
Last edited by conn88Hagmann on Sun Aug 12, 2018 4:59 am, edited 1 time in total.
castrubone
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by castrubone »

In my experience the Conn 88HSGXCL responds faster, has more projection and more core/depth to the sound than the standard rose brass. The core is very dark, but heat's up with a nice bright quality at FFF. Very lively. Haven't tried silver on any other make.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by conn88Hagmann »

That’s a polar opposite then. 😂

Of all those things, I’d have to say the one I played, which wasn’t a “CL” but an “O” didn’t respond faster. But could play louder without breaking up than you could ever ever need!
Last edited by conn88Hagmann on Mon Aug 13, 2018 5:04 pm, edited 1 time in total.
whitbey
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by whitbey »

This must explain Edwards. When I bought my sterling bell, Christian really worked it over. First he had me play several bells. He recommended one that I sounded the best on. It was not real responsive as it was. Christian took the bell to the shop in the other building and annealed the throat three times. It was easy for me as I just sat there, played the horn and mumbled. Somehow he knew what was needed.
This horn play soft with a really nice sound.
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conn88Hagmann
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by conn88Hagmann »

I notice an SGX is up in the classifieds.

Just seen my own comments above, as I’ve been chasing down that trombone I tired here in the UK to try and buy it.

I love the idea of the SGX but does anyone actually use one professionally in an orchestra, and can it blend with normal 88’s?

A player in a band I conduct has a 4BSS and it seems to blend fine to be honest.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by CalgaryTbone »

I think that at least at one time, the whole section in the San Diego Symphony were playing sterling silver Conns. Not sure if that's still the case.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by Burgerbob »

CalgaryTbone wrote: Fri Jul 10, 2020 10:02 am I think that at least at one time, the whole section in the San Diego Symphony were playing sterling silver Conns. Not sure if that's still the case.
Not anymore. Kyle on principal is still playing one (88 sterling bell on a 1919 8H chassis), but the bass trombonists is new and doesn't play a sterling bell.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by Amconk »

I have a Shires SS1 Sterling silver bell. I love it. It doesn’t break up at louder volumes, and has a warm, sweet, almost “singing” quality. I play mostly small ensemble stuff and chamber stuff, so it works perfectly.
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DakoJack
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by DakoJack »

I have a Getzen Sterling Artist model from the 50s basically a Dude but it has the straight braces instead of loops, you can dig through my old posts to find a pic somewhere. I really like the horn but given the methods that were used when it was made its possible they aren't all the same quality. I feel like the ability to "hold together" and project are what I really dig about it also where it falls on the range of bright to dark. Realized a couple of years ago that Sterling Silver was something I was really into.
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BGuttman
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by BGuttman »

Is it really sterling? I played one back in the late 1950s that was silver plated. Looked really nice as well; the silver was matte with polished highlights and polished Kranz. Since I was in 5th grade (and the horn was owned by the New York City Board of Education) I would doubt it was sterling silver.
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DakoJack
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by DakoJack »

BGuttman wrote: Tue Mar 08, 2022 11:35 am Is it really sterling? I played one back in the late 1950s that was silver plated. Looked really nice as well; the silver was matte with polished highlights and polished Kranz. Since I was in 5th grade (and the horn was owned by the New York City Board of Education) I would doubt it was sterling silver.
I believe so the bell engraving says "Artist Model Sterling Series" and then the tone ring say Super Deluxe. Its hard to find trombones just like this one still around on the internet but the trumpets that appear to be from the same series all have a sterling bell with gold plating on the in bell. This all seems to line up with what I have the silver on this one isn't matte so Im not sure if its exactly the same as what you had before. I talked a little about this horn with Adam Getzen and he referenced there being some discrepancies with horns from around the time this one came out.
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BGuttman
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by BGuttman »

Sterling or not, those are probably the only decent Getzens of the period. The one I played came in the same "Wedgie" case. They had to be built well to take the misuse of generations of elementary school children (mine was bought in 1955 and I played it in 1959). My first trombone was also a Getzen, but from the other end of the spectrum. I've often wanted a Super Deluxe like yours (though not silver) but was turned off by all the lesser models.

One caveat for everybody else: the "reach" on this horn is small like a King 2B. May not be for everybody
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by conn88Hagmann »

So I’ve had an SGX for about 6 months now. Have used it out a couple of times. It’s strange.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by Colombino »

Hello, I played a Conn 88H CL with Sterling silver bell for around 6 years.

I really liked the sound and the way it playes, but there are many cons.

It took me some time to adjust to it and I always had troubles when playing with others: because of its great projection and the very dense sound, I was always coming accross as too loud.

After graduation, I changed for a yellow brass Shires and I would actually never come back to the Silver, if not for solo.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by whitbey »

I have played few Conn and Bach 547 horns with sterling bells. They are nothing like the Edwards sterling bell i have. I think they are electroplated on a mandrill. But they sounded sterile to me. I have played King sterling bell and while they are different from the Edwards, they are a different size horn and must be different. The King and the Edwards both seem to not break up at any volume.
None of these comments are meant to be bad, just what I found.
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conn88Hagmann
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by conn88Hagmann »

I think the bottom line is that the SGX is going to go.

Loved the idea more than the reality! 😂
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by MrHCinDE »

conn88Hagmann wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:55 am I think the bottom line is that the SGX is going to go.

Loved the idea more than the reality! 😂
Haha, know that feeling, was the same for me with a 3B SS, in the end I just found a brass 3B(F) easier to play how I wanted to.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by HermanGerman »

MrHCinDE wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 4:14 am
conn88Hagmann wrote: Sun Aug 07, 2022 3:55 am I think the bottom line is that the SGX is going to go.

Loved the idea more than the reality! 😂
Haha, know that feeling, was the same for me with a 3B SS, in the end I just found a brass 3B(F) easier to play how I wanted to.
Me, too.... thirty five years of unrequited love
whitbey
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by whitbey »

I have always had the idea between my Edwards brass and Edwards Sterling bells that the Sterling sounded better but the brass could pop a more defined attack. I played a orchestra concert last season that the trombone parts were generally softer and even the louder parts were to be played with a softer tongue.

I told the Conductor of my sterling bell and the difference I thought there was. I went back and forth between the horns a few times withing the same playing. My sterling bell has not been polished (pandemic, lazy) and the brass bell does not have lacquer. He said he could not see a difference but really appreciated the sound. He confirmed my theory that the sterling sounded better but the brass could pop a more defined attack.

The directors instruments were strings and sax. He also understood the small bore horn sound from big band. But not being a bone player he could not listen with his eyes.

When people ask about my sterling bell ( or ask if it is silver plated) I will thump the bell and have them touch it. It rings and vibrates like it is alive.

Because of the difference in the bells, I frequently use a 525/547 slide with the sterling bell and occasionally use the 547/562 slide. The brass bell is always paired with the 547/562 slide. Both are nickle. I do have a 547/562 brass slide with over-sleeves. The 547/562 brass slide is a good setup for taking down squirrels off the back fence.

If I had one horn, I would use brass. But as my income is from my real estate job, I have a few horns and the different equipment is nice and fun to have.

I am in a new house now. I am having a one car garage made into an office/studio with a laundry tub. The bell will get polished when that room is done.
Edwards Sterling bell 525/547
Edwards brass bell 547/562
Edwards Jazz w/ Ab valve 500"/.508"
Markus Leuchter Alto Trombone
Bass Bach 50 Bb/F/C dependent.
Cerveny oval euphonium
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Carloscain
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by Carloscain »

I play on a large bore Courtois Sterling and medium bore King Sterling. I played a Bach 42BO in college that was a lemon, but it’s all I had. I always felt like I could not get my sound as warm as i wanted with yellow brass. For me the Sterling Silver bells gives me the warmth that I want and takes the edge off vs the yellow brass. I’d love to try out the Conn, but it’s darn near impossible to find sterling horns in stock.
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Re: Sterling Silver Bells

Post by JasonDonnelly »

I like my SGX. Great response and clarity throughout all registers and dynamics. It is bright, though. If I wanted to take orchestral tenor auditions, I would probably try and find something more down the middle. But I'm not! So it's staying in my stable.
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