Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

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tskeldon
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Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by tskeldon »

Hi everyone,

This is my first real post on this forum, so even though I've spent a few days looking around, I may have missed a similar thread. If so I apologize! But there is a wealth of experience and knowledge here and I hope to tap it.

I'm interested in buying a Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Model Trombone (because he is the only remaining idol of my musical youth), but there is not much discussion around them.

Martin set themselves a difficult task at the time trying to reestablish themselves and break through the prevailing paradigms, despite having had a track record with brass instruments in their early years.

If I'm remembering correctly, a local musician and instrument repairman in my town was the first to start importing a little valued brand of instruments called Yamaha into North America. Whatever happened to them?

This forum seems to be a healthy environment that supports advocates of all styles and instruments regardless of whose name is on the bell.

So, if you know any interesting or little known specifics about this particular instrument (beyond bore and bell size please), have personal experience of this instrument, or have played in section with one, please post.

If you have a little used, mint condition horn (or know of one) that you would like to sell, thats even better. Thank you in advance for your well considered and patient consideration of this newby post.

Tim
Davidus1
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Davidus1 »

Thanks for posting this. I am interested in learning about this horn as well and came to the forum today to search for info on it. I'm going to look into the archives. I was able to play one a few weeks ago and really really liked it. Not sure on the bell size but I believe its a .500 bore horn. 8 bell. It was a nice open blow and had a great sound. Terrific horn!
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ngrinder
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by ngrinder »

There’s one for sale now at Josh Landress’ shop in NYC. It’s a great horn, (full disclosure, I have it ther on consignment, so I’m a bit biased!) I have owned two and they are really fine instruments!
tskeldon
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by tskeldon »

Hi ngrinder,

Unfortunately his websight is down, so I can't find out anything about yours. The one a Dhillon's has extreme acid wear on the contact points. That being the case, the previous owners body chemistry likely means that getting the lead-pipe out would be a difficult in not impossible job. Keep me updated. Thanks!

Tim
walldaja
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by walldaja »

I play tested one and thought it was over priced. Lot more small bores out there that sell for a lot less. My friend, who I was play testing for, ended up buying a Jupiter 691.
Dave

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spangy
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by spangy »

I have a Martin tr4501 Urbie that I play frequently. Its a very quick responding nimble horn that's a lot of fun to play. Very lightweight. For such a lightweight weight horn it has a nice core of sound. For small combo work its pretty hard to beat. My only gripe would be cutting through with loud big groups.
Martin was acquired by Leblanc as was Holton. So I believe these were built by Holton. I have a Holton tr-100 which has some similar features. I remember a post from TTf member Chip Hoehler ( anyone know how he's doing?) that the Urbie is basically a light weight yellow brass version of the tr-100.
Good luck with your hunt. I found mine on Craigslist. Its not mint but it plays great.
Just one more thought; these are light weight horns, so if the horn was a good player and used a lot, its probably going to have some wear and tear. Mine did. But its how it plays and sounds thats the important thing.
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DaveAshley
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by DaveAshley »

I just discovered the Urbie in January when I was in New York. I tried one out at J. Landress Brass, and quickly realized how well it would work for the ship gig I'm doing (on-mic 4-horn dance band). That was it - I picked it up, and believe it or not, I've gotten another since then! The two are a bit different (one bell is lacquered and one is not), but both are excellent horns. I had my Butler carbon fiber outer fitted to one slide, and I've been switching between the bells. Talk about a SUPER lightweight setup (which is good, since I've been experiencing some achy joints in the last year or so.)
Quick thoughts on playing an Urbie -- It's snappy, quick, and nimble! I've never played a lightweight horn that holds together so well when pushed. In fact, for years, I've just been convinced that I prefer heavier horns. (If you held my Lawler, you'd understand!) I do imagine that at *extreme* volumes, the Urbie might get a little "splashy" and buried, but I haven't had any problems yet.
I currently own something like 15 trombones (Williams 6, custom Lawler, Connstellation etc, and have owned dozens more), and simply put, I'm using the Urbie(s) more than all the others. I'm a VERY happy customer!
By the way, the bells on both horns measures at 7 5/8 -- I've heard that some are 8 inches, but not in my case.
RJMason
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by RJMason »

The Urbie at Landress’ shop is great! I tried it out for a few weeks and loved using it, so easy to play and respond. Lightweight but doesn’t feel brittle and very well balanced. Ended up not pulling the trigger as I have too many horns and not enough money ;( . Might change my mind. They are really amazing horns. I have to play reallly loud in a few gig settings and it kind of gets too bright for my liking, but cuts well. Sleeper instruments that I feel may make a comeback. To me they are on par with a similar set up you could get From shires, Rath, Edwards, in my experience playing horns with the same specs from all those makers as well.
tskeldon
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by tskeldon »

Hi Dave,

I just got my first Urbie from Doug Bert and am also looking for a second. This one is in beautiful condition. I will be using it in a quartet also, but I always add a voice; that way I get to riff around the vocals when she is singing. It's funny, she thinks she's the featured performer in the group, but I only hired her to provide a melodic architecture over which I attempt to emulate and slavishly impersonate Urbie,without too much insulting his greatness.

I recently apologized to him for the disservice I do the memory of his persistent talent, but no where near profusely enough for the too obvious disparity between our relative talents, and for the private misappropriation of his name in the depths of my own mind as I attempt to channel his musical spirit. It will take a greater talent than mine (or anyone else's for that matter) to prove a legacy worthy of him, with not enough years left for either of us, for me to adequately repay and replay his talent.

I have a question about what mouthpieces you have used successfully with this horn. I have tried it very briefly with a selection of standard mouthpieces from Bach 6's-to 12's with various cups, and found huge differences in the way the instrument responds. The 7C seemed to interface most happily for me (I have both narrow and thin lips leaving quite a bit of space inside the cup). The 11C didn't seem to connect with it at all; a Schilke 51B proved a better partner. What advice does your experience direct. Thanks!

Tim
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BrassedOn
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by BrassedOn »

I had one years ago, and i agree light weight and nimble. Pretty tone.

However, too light for me. I kept denting the bottom bow of the hand slide, just a tap on the foot of a music stand or whatever. And I played in larger groups like big bands. Yeah, better for combo work for me. Ultimately, I needed more of a workhorse and have played King 3B Silver Sonic ever since. Tho I like many other horns, I'm in my comfort zone.
"Do less, better."
1971 King 3B Silver Sonic
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KMills
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by KMills »

I came across this discussion page while I was looking for information about replacing my lead pipe. I played an Urbie Green Martin for the first time at a convention booth in 1979, and immediately ordered one. With the discount (Manny's? Giardinelli's?), it cost $240! I haven't played or owned another horn since. I've used the same Bach 11C mouthpiece that whole time, too. Can you tell I'm not a gearhead?

I've played my trombone a lot - a lot - since I bought it, and I love it. It can be loud and brassy or dark and subdued. It responds well in all registers. (Well - responded well in all registers before age started to shrink my usable range.) It is very light, although I don't notice that until I pick up someone else's horn. It has been very durable, although, granted, I make an effort to be careful with it.

All of that leads to my current slight anxiety, as the local repair guru has informed me that the lead pipe is starting to deteriorate. I don't want it to fall apart mid-gig, so I'm considering having him replace the lead pipe - if that's even possible, since it's soldered in and also probably encased in 40 years of petrified spit goo. If it is possible to replace the lead pipe, I'm worried about how much that will change the response and how hard that will be to get used to. Not your problem, though. For anyone considering buying a circa 1978-79 Martin, I recommend it highly. Great horn.
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Kingfan
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Kingfan »

I'm not a complete idiot, some parts are still missing! :D
Greg Songer
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Trevorspaulding376
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Trevorspaulding376 »

Compared to a king 3b and some other horns I’ve played like a conn 6h etc , to me the upper register really comes out with a lot more ease then on other horns. Not that it doesn’t come out straightforward on those horns but just really smooth and nice to play up high. It almost plays itself up there.
jjb2019
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by jjb2019 »

Hi there everyone. I'm a little late to this thread however, I am a retired Trombone player and I have a beautiful Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone for sale and wondered if anyone here was interested? I am based in Brisbane, Australia, but am happy to post the horn to anyone if they are interested in buying it. I have been reluctant to sell it as my instruments always have sentimental value to me, but my best intentions to play it over the last ten years have never resulted in any action and it deserves to be played. I'm a professional singer/and guitarist/bassist, and I picked up the trombone through my high school and uni years, but have never found the time to keep up the playing amongst all the other interests I hold. Hence the horn is in immaculate condition, having been only played for a few years and been in storage ever since. I will post photos in the Classifieds, but thought this was the best place to start.
Jantbn
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Jantbn »

I have had one since they first came to England in 1979.
Love it, its my fav. I use it for most things except Classical.
Speaks really easily and can et still get a good full sound if treated with respect !
Do blow the one you plan to buy as they can be very different.
dfeheley
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by dfeheley »

Brass Ark is advertising a Martin Urbie Green in “near factory new” condition
jjb2019
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by jjb2019 »

Hi everyone. In regards to the Trombone I posted about back in February, I have just listed this in the classifieds section of this website. Please contact me with any interest or questions you may have. Thanks :-)

Hi there everyone. I'm a little late to this thread however, I am a retired Trombone player and I have a beautiful Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone for sale and wondered if anyone here was interested? I am based in Brisbane, Australia, but am happy to post the horn to anyone if they are interested in buying it. I have been reluctant to sell it as my instruments always have sentimental value to me, but my best intentions to play it over the last ten years have never resulted in any action and it deserves to be played. I'm a professional singer/and guitarist/bassist, and I picked up the trombone through my high school and uni years, but have never found the time to keep up the playing amongst all the other interests I hold. Hence the horn is in immaculate condition, having been only played for a few years and been in storage ever since. I will post photos in the Classifieds, but thought this was the best place to start.
Vegasbound
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Vegasbound »

When the Urbie's where first produced they came with options, I had one that was 71/2 inch bell and short tuning slide it was light, responsive and great in the studio for recording
markta1b
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by markta1b »

I am a life-long trumpet player, listening again to the beautifully re-mastered version of Billie Holiday's "Lady in Satin." The three trombonists are listed as Urbie Green, Tom Mitchell and J.J. Johnson. On the cuts featuring trombone solos, Green is either listed alone, or else first in the succession of three.

In uncounted listenings to this album, which features several transcendent trombone solos among the twelve cuts, I cannot help but believe that the speed and intricacy of the note progressions in these excursions could only have been accomplished using a *valve* trombone. Indeed, upon first listening, I thought I was hearing Bob Brookmeyer.

Did Green - or either of the other two trombonists - ever play a valved version of the instrument?

Thank you and best regards, MarkT
rickfaulknernyc
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by rickfaulknernyc »

When I was in high school, a local music store went out of business and I picked up a 4501 at half price. It was my main small-bore horn through college and the beginning of my performing career. I switched to a 3B in the mid-90's, but continued to use the Urbie as my "road" horn for several more years. I recently started playing it again (it's my practice horn at my teaching gig), and am enjoying getting reacquainted.

I've played literally thousands of gigs on it - jazz, big band, salsa, soul/R&B, ska etc. etc. It plays easy, and gets a great sound. I don't find it gets overly bright at louder volume, but I also use a fairly large mp.

The one flaw I found is that as built, the horn is quite front-heavy. I finally had a counterweight installed, which helped a lot. All in all, a very nice instrument.
Vegasbound
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Vegasbound »

markta1b wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:57 pm I am a life-long trumpet player, listening again to the beautifully re-mastered version of Billie Holiday's "Lady in Satin." The three trombonists are listed as Urbie Green, Tom Mitchell and J.J. Johnson. On the cuts featuring trombone solos, Green is either listed alone, or else first in the succession of three.

In uncounted listenings to this album, which features several transcendent trombone solos among the twelve cuts, I cannot help but believe that the speed and intricacy of the note progressions in these excursions could only have been accomplished using a *valve* trombone. Indeed, upon first listening, I thought I was hearing Bob Brookmeyer.

Did Green - or either of the other two trombonists - ever play a valved version of the instrument?

Thank you and best regards, MarkT
Go back and listen again, urbie and others such as Carl Fontana Bill Watrous Frank Rossolino mastered what is now called doodle tonguing

No Urbie only ever used a slide
rickfaulknernyc
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by rickfaulknernyc »

Vegasbound wrote: Fri Jan 21, 2022 12:22 am
markta1b wrote: Sat Feb 20, 2021 3:57 pm I am a life-long trumpet player, listening again to the beautifully re-mastered version of Billie Holiday's "Lady in Satin." The three trombonists are listed as Urbie Green, Tom Mitchell and J.J. Johnson. On the cuts featuring trombone solos, Green is either listed alone, or else first in the succession of three.

In uncounted listenings to this album, which features several transcendent trombone solos among the twelve cuts, I cannot help but believe that the speed and intricacy of the note progressions in these excursions could only have been accomplished using a *valve* trombone. Indeed, upon first listening, I thought I was hearing Bob Brookmeyer.

Did Green - or either of the other two trombonists - ever play a valved version of the instrument?

Thank you and best regards, MarkT
Go back and listen again, urbie and others such as Carl Fontana Bill Watrous Frank Rossolino mastered what is now called doodle tonguing

No Urbie only ever used a slide
The solos on "I'm a Fool to Want You" and "It's Easy to Remember" are by Urbie (he uses a more shimmery vibrato); J.J. solos on "Glad to be Unhappy" and "I Get Along Without You". I doubt either of them is using doodle tongue at those slow tempos. What sounds like valve trombone is a very clean grace note (Urbie does a chain of these on "I'm a Fool"). Both J.J. and Urbie are very "clean" players with great technique, but you do hear them using the slide for inflections from time to time.

(BTW J.J. did play the trombonium (a sort of upright valve trombone) on occasion in his quintet with Kai Winding, but not here.)
Fairweather
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by Fairweather »

Nice thread, which I can prolong by owning up to a recently acquired a very nice Urbie with an 8 inch bell and great sounding Jiggs both in very gd condition and now my trombone life is difficult. To make the situation even more complicated my closets contain a 3b and 2b from the 50s, a king liberty from the early 40s and lastly a 2b+ with an unlaquered custom bare brass slide. Spoiled for choice is a 1st world problem but in this case cursed might be a better description. Should I focus my life with the Jiggs, settle for a perhaps a too pretty sound with the Urbie or rotate the other kings until I give up in despair unable to settle on a daily driver. In my opinion the Kings are the sound of Jazz as typified by Mr. Johnson in his prime but yet that Urbie is sweet and lively. I hate equipment choices.
stanzabone
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Re: Martin TR4501 Urbie Green Trombone

Post by stanzabone »

Wessex makes a trombone that is pretty close to a copy of the Martin Urbie. I never have had a chance to play one, but it might be an option.
I played a Martin years ago (well, decades ago...) and loved it, and have lusted after one ever since but was not in a buying situation. Link:
https://us.wessex-tubas.com/products/bb ... ier-pb4501
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