Conn 50H / YSL 882 / JSL 636

[TimBrass]

Hi All,

I can get a good deal on a nice Conn 50H trombone. What are your thoughts on this instrument?
I plan to mainly use it for playing in a horn section playing Phil Collins music.

All your thoughts are welcome….

[BGuttman]

Should work OK. It's the Director "training bass" but has medium bore and a serviceable F-attachment. You might be able to do better, but this won't be the worst thing you could buy. What condition is it in?

[TimBrass]

Has been rebuild and refinished.

[TimBrass]

If you'd have the choice of 2 instruments for the job. (job is playing in a horn section Phil Collins music) What would be your choice?

The YSL-882 or the Conn 50H?

[BGuttman]

I think you will be less tired after a session on the 50H than after playing the 882. Also, if the location is dangerous to the horn I'd take the 50H in a heartbeat.

If you are playing unamplified with a bunch of electronic twangies hooked into amps set to 11, neither will be good; I'd go for something you can overblow and peel paint, like a Conn 4H or another small bore.

[TimBrass]

We are playing close mic. I have a Conn director 27H now but like the ability to use an f attachment. Could get a deal on an 50H so thought i'd ask here if it would be a good option....
Im actually a euphonium player, so my knowledge on trombones is not so much.

[JohnL]

Try the 50H before you buy it. Pay special attention to the clearance between the slide and the bell rim. Some people have trouble thwacking their knuckles on the bell when playing on a 50H. If the knuckles aren't a problem, the 50H will probably work.

That said, if I were choosing a horn for gig like that, I'd more likely go with a King 3B-F. Brighter sound, more like what you would normally hear out of a rock band trombonist.

[StephenK]

I had a 50H many years ago, it was very poor, and I had to send it back 3 times before ditching it. (The slide was faulty/ very poor). So I'm a bit biased against them, but it was as much because the band management were insistent that it was good for bass trombone, (they purchased 6H's for the tenors).

[TimBrass]

Looking at all my options here, let me put one more horn in the mix.

What would you weapon of choice be?
YSL-882
Conn 50H
Or the Jupiter 636

[BGuttman]

I'd stay away from large bore. I think the 636 is large bore. If you want an F-attachment, consider a King 3B or one of the multitude of Medium Bore horns with F-attachments. Yamaha 640, 684, 646 as examples.

[TimBrass]

What would be a good price for an overhauled Conn 50h in your opinion?

[BGuttman]

Market conditions vary all over the world. In the US I wouldn't pay more than $500 for one. In Europe, the prices are higher.

[greenbean]

$300, tops!

But for the job you describe, none of the above are a great choice, IMO.

[hyperbolica]

Overhauling a 50h is a little heavy handed, I think. The overhaul would be worth more than the horn. Regardless of condition, I personally wouldn't spend more than $700 on a 50h. A 79h might go as high as $2000 for something really spectacular, but averaging under $1500. You pay a ~20% NYC premium if you buy from Dillons. If you want to overhaul a Conn medium bore, take some time to find a 79h.

[greenbean]

I think the best way to get a decent small bore horn that will work in that setting is to tell the folks here what your budget is. You need something bright and loud. There are many trustworthy sellers on this forum who have good horns for sale (myself included). There are several guys that I would buy a horn from sight unseen, based on their reputation and description of the horn.

(As for an overhauled 50H... These were played by students almost exclusively. So, the fact that it needed an overhaul suggests that some kid played the thing to death. Unless it is close to free, why bother?)

[TimBrass]

My budget is around 500 Euro's (580 - 600 USD)
Looking for a small bore (with F att.)

Please be aware that I'm living in the netherlands. Shipping is not so much an issue, but custom-clearance could add a lot of $$$ to the total price.

Suggestions are welcome. I was thinking:
Benge 175F
King 3BF
Conn 79H
Blessing B-78
Yamaha 640, 684, 646

By the way could buy the 50H for 460 USD.

[TimBrass]

Found an Olds Super Star (V-20).....
Is that something that would be suitable?

[BGuttman]

The SuperStar is a nice horn. Really a "small" bore with F. A better version of the A-20 Ambassador with F.

For amateur or outdoor it's fantastic. Audition for Concertgebouw? No. As a sole trombone in a Rock band, I'd use it in a heartbeat. Only real limitation I know of is that you can't really retune the attachment to E, but that may not be an issue. Also, the attachment is rather small bore and might feel stuffy; especially for notes below the staff.

[FeelMyRath]

My budget is around 500 Euro's (580 - 600 USD)
Looking for a small bore (with F att.)

Please be aware that I'm living in the netherlands. Shipping is not so much an issue, but custom-clearance could add a lot of $$$ to the total price.

Suggestions are welcome. I was thinking:
Benge 175F
King 3BF
Conn 79H
Blessing B-78
Yamaha 640, 684, 646

By the way could buy the 50H for 460 USD.

Yamaha 356G. You should be able to find one within budget quite easily.

[ConnBone18]

My budget is around 500 Euro's (580 - 600 USD)
Looking for a small bore (with F att.)

Please be aware that I'm living in the netherlands. Shipping is not so much an issue, but custom-clearance could add a lot of $$$ to the total price.

Suggestions are welcome. I was thinking:
Benge 175F
King 3BF
Conn 79H
Blessing B-78
Yamaha 640, 684, 646

By the way could buy the 50H for 460 USD.

For 500 euros it will not be easy to find something like this in the Netherlands (or Belgium).
Small bores enough for sale, but not with F-att.
Keep an eye on MP every day, and try out the big music shops from the Netherlands, some have a lot of used trombones in stock.

[sirisobhakya]

My budget is around 500 Euro's (580 - 600 USD)
Looking for a small bore (with F att.)

Please be aware that I'm living in the netherlands. Shipping is not so much an issue, but custom-clearance could add a lot of $$$ to the total price.

Suggestions are welcome. I was thinking:
Benge 175F
King 3BF
Conn 79H
Blessing B-78
Yamaha 640, 684, 646

By the way could buy the 50H for 460 USD.

Yamaha 600 series would be a little out of reach for the budget. I suggest a used 356R (a 354 with F-attachment), 446, or 456G.

[BGuttman]

I am not a fan of the Conn 50H, but given your budget I would say "buy what you can afford, provided it is in good condition, and play the heck out of it. A good student horn with F might serve fine. If you can earn enough money you can upgrade later.

Given you are in Europe, look into the Markneukirchen made instruments and the Shenkelaars instruments. At one point Shenkelaars was making Olds trombones and they made several with more modern F-attachments. Also look at the Holton TR-680 and Reynolds Onyx. I would avoid any instrument with a "birdie" name, though.

[TimBrass]

Did some more digging and nailed it down to 2 options (up-adjusted my budget a bit)

Olds Super Star V-20
Or
King 3BF

Which one to pick?

[BGuttman]

Personally I'd go for the 3BF. While I like the SuperStar, it's got to be 40+ years old. 3BF has a sound considered current.

As in all things, condition trumps preference. If the SuperStar is in better condition than the 3BF, go with the SuperStar.

[TimBrass]

Since I’m a euphonium player I play on a reasonably big mouthpiece. A warburton Demondrae. I use the same rim on my small bore trombone mouthpiece a warburton 7D cup. I’d expect the Olds to brighten my sound more then the King. I like the extra brightness (if my assumptions are correct)

[JohnL]

Olds Super Star V-20
Or
King 3BF

If I were you, I'd go 3BF. It's gonna have a little more "zing" than a V-20, all things being equal. The upper tube on the 3BF is smaller, but that's offset by the 3BF's nickel outers. The V-20 also has that one-piece brace on the handslide that a lot of techs aren't too fond of.