Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

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ranttila
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Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by ranttila » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:02 pm

Hey, I play a a Bach 6.5AL on LT36BOG and overall I really enjoy my intonation, but I would like my lower register :line2: Bb to F to sound more round and smoother by order of a slight mouthpiece change. I know I should be looking at slightly bigger mouthpieces(I think) and have looked at a 5G. Do you guys think that is what I’m looking for? I’m just hoping for some mouthpiece suggestions.
Thanks, Kenneth
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Burgerbob
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Burgerbob » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:11 pm

A Schilke 51 would be a great match.
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BGuttman
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by BGuttman » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:27 pm

Remember, if you go bigger for the low range you will have to rebuild your high range.

That said, I always liked "4" size mouthpeces. I play a 4C for jazz, a Wick 4BS for concert work on my Bach 36, and a Wick 4BL on my symphonic tenor. The same size is Schilke/Yamaha 52,
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Kbiggs » Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:52 pm

I have the greatest respect for Bruce and Aiden. They are knowledgeable and well-meaning colleagues, and all things being equal I think they make excellent suggestions. However, I would caution against taking advice over the internet about a mouthpiece change. I would also caution against making a mouthpiece change for a particular reason, such as a better lower register or a better higher register. I would suggest talking with your teacher first, and working on developing the lower register. Just a different view...
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Doug Elliott » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:00 am

For many players, a 6-1/2 and even a 5G are too small to get a really full low range. I'm referring to rim size, not the overall mouthpiece. If you are interested in my mouthpieces I can give you good advice on what works on a 36B since I play one sometimes.
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Neo Bri
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Neo Bri » Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:11 am

Doug Elliott wrote:
Sun Jun 03, 2018 12:00 am
For many players, a 6-1/2 and even a 5G are too small to get a really full low range. I'm referring to rim size, not the overall mouthpiece. If you are interested in my mouthpieces I can give you good advice on what works on a 36B since I play one sometimes.
And Doug's the guy. Taught me everything I know about chops.
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by blast » Sun Jun 03, 2018 1:36 am

Kbiggs wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:52 pm
I have the greatest respect for Bruce and Aiden. They are knowledgeable and well-meaning colleagues, and all things being equal I think they make excellent suggestions. However, I would caution against taking advice over the internet about a mouthpiece change. I would also caution against making a mouthpiece change for a particular reason, such as a better lower register or a better higher register. I would suggest talking with your teacher first, and working on developing the lower register. Just a different view...
Exactly.

Chris
ranttila
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower regist

Post by ranttila » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:09 pm

BGuttman wrote:
Sat Jun 02, 2018 9:27 pm
Remember, if you go bigger for the low range you will have to rebuild your high range.

That said, I always liked "4" size mouthpeces. I play a 4C for jazz, a Wick 4BS for concert work on my Bach 36, and a Wick 4BL on my symphonic tenor. The same size is Schilke/Yamaha 52,
What part do you play in jazz and concert band? Do you just like the feel of the “4” sized mouthpieces or do you have lots of low notes? I’m currently playing 2nd trombone in both symphonic winds and jazz band, but next year I am hoping to get the one trombone spot for Pit Orchestra and the top spot for the top Show Choir band. Like I said, the main mouthpiece I use is a normal 6.5AL for both bands. I also have a 6.5AL Megatone, a Josef Klier 9C, and a Bach 12C(Almost never used nowadays). I was thinking of going bigger as I like my 6.5ALs more than my other mouthpieces which are smaller and a bigger mouthpiece could help out the tone quality of low notes.
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower regist

Post by Redthunder » Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:20 pm

ranttila wrote:
Mon Jun 04, 2018 2:09 pm
What part do you play in jazz and concert band? Do you just like the feel of the “4” sized mouthpieces or do you have lots of low notes? I’m currently playing 2nd trombone in both symphonic winds and jazz band, but next year I am hoping to get the one trombone spot for Pit Orchestra and the top spot for the top Show Choir band. Like I said, the main mouthpiece I use is a normal 6.5AL for both bands. I also have a 6.5AL Megatone, a Josef Klier 9C, and a Bach 12C(Almost never used nowadays). I was thinking of going bigger as I like my 6.5ALs more than my other mouthpieces which are smaller and a bigger mouthpiece could help out the tone quality of low notes.
You really should talk to Doug. He will save a lot of time, energy, and probably money. He can help you find the right mouthpiece that fits YOUR needs, based on YOUR playing.

But that said, I also use a 4C for small bore, including on lead, 2nd, and 3rd, pit orchestras, salsa, etc. and it has nothing to do with low notes. Low notes come out just fine, yes, but that's simply because my face just works better with a larger rim. My high chops are better with it too. Previously I played on a collection of about two dozen 12Cs, 11Cs, and 7Cs, looking for the right one that would give me that small bore sound and feel and ease of playing. None of them ever felt right for me.
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Doug Elliott » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:33 pm

That's pretty much exactly what I was about to post. For those of us who play better on big rim sizes, it's not about what part you play or just low notes. The right size rim makes everything easier and work better.

This obviously doesn't apply to those who need smaller rim sizes, and I'm not trying to suggest that at all. But the majority of players, especially those who need to play a variety of music styles and different tenor sizes, would do well to consider a fairly big rim size for everything. When the embouchure mechanics are correct, there are no disadvantages, only advantages.
ranttila
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by ranttila » Mon Jun 04, 2018 6:44 pm

I see, so it’s all about finding the right mouthpiece for yourself and how you play. I’ll work on my embouchure so I can maybe move up mouthpiece sizes and then sound even better.
Doug, I pm’d you about a mouthpiece if you want to help me out. I think you’d be a great help in finding the right mouthpiece for me.
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Matt K
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Matt K » Tue Jun 05, 2018 6:46 pm

The metaphor I always use is that it's like getting fitted for a pair of glasses. When you get the right pairing, everything comes into focus - both with glasses and with the rim size.
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by imsevimse » Wed Jun 06, 2018 4:58 am

I've heard it said more than once you should choose the smallest rim you can play the register you need, that gives the best sound and the best articulation. Last person who said that was Wayne Bergeron at a clinic here in Stockholm a couple of weeks ago. He also said you could switch and go for the largest rim using the same criteria. His point was "it will be the same rim" in the end.
Wayne is a monster player.

He also told us he did not play everything on the same mouthpiece. He switched to a suitable mouthpiece to match the style of music he was going to play. Classical or Jazz. He also switched to blend better with someone, if that other persons sound demanded this.

I think this sounds very logical. It convinced me I'm doing nothing wrong to have a varity of mouthpieces to fit any small bore, medium bore, medium large bore, large bore and bass. I choose from 2-3 mouthpieces per size depending on what the situation calls for. My average best size seems to be a Bach 5-ish on medium to large bore trombones and a Bach 11C-is for lead on my small tenors. For me I think a Bach 5-is for lead in a big band is a little to much work. It will probably work but it will require more from my chops. I have no problem to scale down when lead comes up. That is how it feels.

When it comes to advice on mouthpieces I agree with all that says any specific advice over Internet must be taken with a lot of salt. Personally experimenting with size has been a good thing. I've learned what I like and what I don't like. I think by experimenting is how we learn these things best..

/Tom
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Doug Elliott
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Doug Elliott » Wed Jun 06, 2018 7:48 am

I saw the OP by Skype yesterday. He's not ready for anything bigger than the 6-1/2 he has, and I told him to stay on it for a year or two. I gave him a couple of pointers to open up his sound and build some strength. He'll be fine.
Posaunus
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Posaunus » Wed Jun 06, 2018 12:40 pm

Kenneth (OP) was very wise to accept the advice of a true mouthpiece pro (Doug Elliott). :good:

Congratulations to both on getting together and bypassing the opinions of the rest of us "experts!"

Good luck, Kenneth.
ranttila
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by ranttila » Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:05 pm

Thanks for the good wishes! The real problem was my embouchure which wasn’t very hot and was fairly loose. Doug gave me some great things to think about and practice to get my corners substantianlly firmer which will solve my problems with low notes much better than a mouthpiece change. It shows just how important the fundamentals are when playing music. :good:
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Redthunder » Wed Jun 06, 2018 2:14 pm

ranttila wrote:
Wed Jun 06, 2018 1:05 pm
Thanks for the good wishes! The real problem was my embouchure which wasn’t very hot and was fairly loose. Doug gave me some great things to think about and practice to get my corners substantianlly firmer which will solve my problems with low notes much better than a mouthpiece change. It shows just how important the fundamentals are when playing music. :good:
Glad to hear. I remember when I first got a lesson with Doug in college, I had already amassed over 50 small bore mouthpieces. It took me until this year (three years later at least) before everything really started to click.

Now I have twice as many mouthpieces, but I just only use one. :good:
Funkificator
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by Funkificator » Thu Jun 14, 2018 10:57 am

I have found that I do better on larger rim sizes as I came out of my teens. Used to be on a 5G-ish size, after 25 or so, a 4G size in general really fits me well overall. I stick with that rim size for bass to small tenor, and it works very well to switch in between.

I agree with previous posters, that one has to find the right size like with glasses, or a pair of shoes. Trying to fit into larger shoes just because Usain Bolt has a size 43, doesn't mean I will run like him with those shoes...
ranttila
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Re: Looking to get a mouthpiece to improve my lower register

Post by ranttila » Fri Jun 22, 2018 8:31 pm

I actually ended up downsizing a little bit, ending with a slightly smaller Gold Schilke 47. I got a good deal on eBay! I found that my lower register has had problems due to my lips being tired from the 4 hour marching band practices and due to my jaw not being lowered enough, of which I have fixed the last one and it has made a difference. Along with Doug’s advice my overall low register tone has improved a lot. It is tough sometimes though, due to my lips being tired I cannot get low A-G to speak about half the time, they just end up buzzing and shaking so that I can’t get a solid sound.
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