I bought my first Yamaha horn brand new

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue May 23, 2017 4:31 pm

I bought a Yamaha 640 YSL .525 horn. Brand new. I mostly
buy used horns and play them, and then I sell them. However, I
was curious about trying a brand new horn. I have taken this new Yamaha 640 ysl to four gigs
(two salsa gigs, one church gig, one big band rehearsal) with a Brass Ark
Clarke gold plated mouthpiece and this has been a very good revelation.
This is a fantastic horn!

Sound- excellent
Slide - excellent
trigger- excellent
tuning- excellent
response- excellent
ergonomics - excellent
workmanship - excellent
case - excellent
bang for my buck - excellent
ability to play many styles - excellent
low range - nice and open
high range - very responsive

Have any of the members played this horn as your main axe?
I am impressed!

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Tue May 23, 2017 4:37 pm

Glad you like it. I like the YSL 600 series, solid horns.

ttf_Ellrod · Post by **ttf_Ellrod** » Tue May 23, 2017 5:42 pm

I am curious about the Yam 600-level horns. It seems that Y is a little shy when it comes to promoting them, likely because they'd prefer to sell Xenos. Reasonable enough, I guess. But a description of the 620 bass being suitable for "budget conscious band directors"? It doesn't exactly make one reach for one's wallet (unless you're a budget conscious bd, I guess).

In fact, the characteristics of the 600 series horns - light, responsive - are the opposite of what I dislike about the Xenos I've tried, that is, heavy and dark. On the face of it, the 620 bass seems to modeled after the Conn 62H: thin, gold brass 9 1/2" bell, stacked rotors, closed wrap. Looks similar from the photos and what I remember about my Elkhart 62H. No TIS of course.

I'm pro-Yam these days, having recently acquired a 671 alto and a 691 tenor. They suit me just fine.

ttf_Remo · Post by **ttf_Remo** » Tue May 23, 2017 5:54 pm

Quote from: louilou on May 23, 2017, 04:31PMI bought a Yamaha 640 YSL .525 horn. Brand new.

Have any of the members played this horn as your main axe?
I am impressed!

Yup! Got to pick mine out of the warehouse in Buena Park. Great, great horn. Had to have quite a bit of work done on the trigger bar to get it to fit my hand comfortably, but I have big hands. Otherwise love this horn. Play it in big bands all the time when I'm not on bass bone. It did take a while, I'd say about a year and a half to really get the slide broken in. The rotor needs lube a little more often than most of my other horns, but then that's probably breaking in too.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:17 am

Quote from: louilou on May 23, 2017, 04:31PM
I bought a Yamaha 640 YSL .525 horn. Brand new. I mostly buy used horns and play them, and then I sell them. However, I
was curious about trying a brand new horn. I have taken this new Yamaha 640 ysl to four gigs
(two salsa gigs, one church gig, one big band rehearsal) with a Brass Ark
Clarke gold plated mouthpiece and this has been a very good revelation.
This is a fantastic horn!

Sound- excellent
Slide - excellent
trigger- excellent
tuning- excellent
response- excellent
ergonomics - excellent
workmanship - excellent
case - excellent
bang for my buck - excellent
ability to play many styles - excellent
low range - nice and open
high range - very responsive

Have any of the members played this horn as your main axe?
I am impressed!
Uhhps, was too quick with the send button.

Yeah, i completely agree with all you said about the horn.

If I was pressed to use only one Trombone...the YSL 640 would be my pick.

I bought mine used, in like new condition at half the street price.
So i was lucky and got twice the bang for my buck.

everytime i pick up the horn i really enjoy playing it so much.

oh....and to all of you who state that Yamaha horns suffer from lack of character....
Character comes from behing the horn!

Greetings from the old world
Heinrich

<Edit: Combined posts>

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Wed May 24, 2017 9:42 am

The 640 is a great horn. The case is nice, though I do think it allows the slide to bounce around a bit too much when compared to some other designs. I put a rag in there to help stabilize it.

Great all around horn, and lightweight as well.

ttf_MikeBMiller · Post by **ttf_MikeBMiller** » Wed May 24, 2017 1:03 pm

Does anyone know why Yamaha goes with 8 1/2" bells on their .525 horns, when most others stick with 8"?

ttf_hyperbolica · Post by **ttf_hyperbolica** » Wed May 24, 2017 3:03 pm

Congrats on buying a nice horn. After working with used horns, it must be difficult to bite the bullet and shell out for a new one.

I'm mostly a Conn guy, but I've got Yamahas that I think are great horns, like the 651(500) and 691(509). To me, a 525 horn feels better with an 8" bell. 8.5" just feels a little too 547ish. Just personal taste. I'm a 79h player at heart, but I do have a soft spot for Yamaha bones.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Wed May 24, 2017 4:44 pm

I agree. this horn would be even more interesting with a 8 inch bell.
Regards

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Wed May 24, 2017 5:13 pm

I agree with the above comments on the 600 series horns. I own a newish YSL-620 (large-bore Bb/F) and greatly prefer it to the Xeno models. The 600 horns don't get much respect since Yamaha does not market them. At all. Totally under the radar.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Thu May 25, 2017 2:04 pm

Quote from: MikeBMiller on May 24, 2017, 01:03PMDoes anyone know why Yamaha goes with 8 1/2" bells on their .525 horns, when most others stick with 8"?
Why does the King 3B have an 8 inch bell, while it is a .508" bore horn? There really aren't rules.

There really aren't many .525 bore horns around anymore in current production, except for the Bach 36, which has the same bell section as a bach 42, except for the bell. The bell on that is made on the same mandrel, but made 1/2" bigger.

You can also get .525 bore slides for the Conn 8H, but I've only seen one recent special order 8H with an 8 inch bell, made for Ralph Sauer, which was on sale at the Brass Ark a few years back.

I suspect though that the real reason is simply economy. This way they don't have to keep track of multiple bell sections, and they use all the same parts, not an uncommon thing.

ttf_bassclef · Post by **ttf_bassclef** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:43 am

I have a 640 that sees a ton of use on my gigs, I love it. I find it ideal for pit work and it works very well in a 12-piece dance band where I'm the second of two bones and the arrangements have me as far below as above the staff at times. It can also do a very convincing large-bore orchestral horn impression with a deeper cupped mouthpiece.

Medium bore horns can typically lean one of two ways in their predisposition for sound and feel - a smaller orchestral horn or a larger jazz horn. To me, the 640 lies naturally right in the middle of that spectrum and, as with my other Yamaha horns, I can take it in either direction quite easily.

There are a couple minor things about it I don't like:

I play with my slide nearly parallel to the floor and to me, it feels nose-heavy. Especially with a mute in. I've been looking at Yamaha's parts site and I'm considering ordering a 630 tuning slide assembly which has the cross brace. I think the weight of the brace itself might balance things to my liking and if not, I can always add a counterweight.

My other gripe is that I really, really wish it had enough attachment tuning slide tubing to get an E-pull or at least a bit closer to it. That'd make it pretty much perfect in my eyes. On the other hand, the wrap style is awfully nice for the cramped quarters in which I often find myself working.

I'd also love to see what it'd be like with an 8" bell.

If you don't like the bar stock trigger, you can buy the adjustable thumb paddle from any of the large bore Xeno models and it fits right on. I found that to be a nice addition.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri May 26, 2017 9:56 am

I bet a tech could make an e pull tuning slide for a reasonable price.

ttf_Posaunus · Post by **ttf_Posaunus** » Fri May 26, 2017 11:05 am

Quote from: Matt K on May 26, 2017, 09:56AMI bet a tech could make an e pull tuning slide for a reasonable price.

Probably not without changing the wrap - may need more length than is available to bring the attachment tubing out a half step and still allow for tuning.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri May 26, 2017 11:13 am

Quote from: Posaunus on May 26, 2017, 11:05AMProbably not without changing the wrap - may need more length than is available to bring the attachment tubing out a half step and still allow for tuning.

If this is a 640:

Then the tech could do something similar to a duo gravis D tuning slide where you insert the main F attachment tuning slide into a sleeve. That way you wouldn't have two tuning slides, one the original and the other one a tuning slide that would always have an exposed leg... but then again if having the tuning slide legs exposed wasn't a problem I don't think this would be a particularly costly undertaking. Tubing is not very expensive and you'd only need two inner tubes, a bend, and two ferrules.

ttf_renbaroque · Post by **ttf_renbaroque** » Fri May 26, 2017 12:13 pm

Quote from: Matt K on May 26, 2017, 11:13AMIf this is a 640:

Then the tech could do something similar to a duo gravis D tuning slide where you insert the main F attachment tuning slide into a sleeve. That way you wouldn't have two tuning slides, one the original and the other one a tuning slide that would always have an exposed leg... but then again if having the tuning slide legs exposed wasn't a problem I don't think this would be a particularly costly undertaking. Tubing is not very expensive and you'd only need two inner tubes, a bend, and two ferrules.

Yes. Or, even simpler, all you need is two extension pipes that could accept the existing F tuning slide on the one side, and go into the F attachment tuning slide receiver on the other. Could put braces to bridge the two pipes if you want, but not necessary. Easy fabrication for a capable tech. Whether or not the hand slide is long enough to have full 6 positions on this particular model with an E pull or not is a different question, though. To get low enough for the low B-natural at full extended "6th" position, the 1st position E might have to be put too low to be useable. Older Conn single bass trombones had longer than usual hand slide for this very reason, I think.

I used to own a 640. Fantastic horn! 8.5" bell to me didn't seem to get in the way. But if you really want a 8" bell, 356G or 456G (though neither is readily available in the US at the moment) bell section will fit straight .525" slide. I would think bell throat size is the same, too, so maybe you could even get the flair only and either replace or make exchangeable, I would believe.

ttf_Remo · Post by **ttf_Remo** » Fri May 26, 2017 3:51 pm

Quote from: bassclef on May 26, 2017, 09:43AMMy other gripe is that I really, really wish it had enough attachment tuning slide tubing to get an E-pull or at least a bit closer to it. That'd make it pretty much perfect in my eyes. On the other hand, the wrap style is awfully nice for the cramped quarters in which I often find myself working.

I'd also love to see what it'd be like with an 8" bell.

If you don't like the bar stock trigger, you can buy the adjustable thumb paddle from any of the large bore Xeno models and it fits right on. I found that to be a nice addition.

Yeah, it would be kind of cool if that second F attachment slide was long enough to get to E, it's in a great position to do it quick on a piece.
But I just don't see getting a big enough sound out of a 640 to really try to cover any bass material. However, I have wondered why the bell wasn't closer to 8 than 8.5, but, I haven't seen any true drawbacks as is.

My problem with the trigger I don't think would have been fixed with the Xeno bar. I had it cut, flipped, and re-soldered so that it was on the outboard rather than on the inboard side of the saddle. I'll try to get a pic of it posted at some point, it worked out quite nicely.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:14 pm

Quote from: renbaroque on May 26, 2017, 12:13PMYes. Or, even simpler, all you need is two extension pipes that could accept the existing F tuning slide on the one side, and go into the F attachment tuning slide receiver on the other. Could put braces to bridge the two pipes if you want, but not necessary. Easy fabrication for a capable tech. Whether or not the hand slide is long enough to have full 6 positions on this particular model with an E pull or not is a different question, though. To get low enough for the low B-natural at full extended "6th" position, the 1st position E might have to be put too low to be useable. Older Conn single bass trombones had longer than usual hand slide for this very reason, I think.

I used to own a 640. Fantastic horn! 8.5" bell to me didn't seem to get in the way. But if you really want a 8" bell, 356G or 456G (though neither is readily available in the US at the moment) bell section will fit straight .525" slide. I would think bell throat size is the same, too, so maybe you could even get the flair only and either replace or make exchangeable, I would believe.

Actually yeah, even better AND cheaper

The reason for the 8.5" bell is the "continuous taper bell section" according to their marketing documentation!!! That and a 6.5AL will get you a 'teutonic sound'!

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Fri May 26, 2017 6:40 pm

You will have an E pull, but T1 will be flat, won't it?...

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat May 27, 2017 11:04 am

I have the 682 with the exact same wrap. I note that with both slides pulled out as far as they will go I'm still not at E.

I had toyed with the idea of having a crook made for the forward-facing loop that would give me E, but then again I play a nice bass and really never need to make the tenor into a "mini-bass".

That's my one complaint about the Yamaha F-attachments.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Sat May 27, 2017 5:39 pm

The "second tuning slide" is actually listed as a feature. It allows you to empty out the water that can collect in there.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat May 27, 2017 9:01 pm

Quote from: greenbean on May 26, 2017, 06:40PMYou will have an E pull, but T1 will be flat, won't it?...

For the E-pull to work properly on most trombones, you need to make the attachment a flat E. Then low B will be at the very end of the slide. E and B in 1st position will be too flat to use.

There is a reason the double trigger bass became the standard.

ttf_greenbean · Post by **ttf_greenbean** » Sat May 27, 2017 10:50 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on May 27, 2017, 09:01PMFor the E-pull to work properly on most trombones, you need to make the attachment a flat E. Then low B will be at the very end of the slide. E and B in 1st position will be too flat to use.

There is a reason the double trigger bass became the standard.

I understand all this. But didn't someone propose lengthening the F slide? If you do that, won't the F-attachment become a "flat-F-attachment" and won't you use lose the usual T1 notes, like C, low F, pedal F, etc (when the F tuning slide is pushed all the way in)?...

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat May 27, 2017 11:02 pm

Yup. It's basically like someone else in another thread who wanted an Eb attachment. If you crook the attachment to another value, you have to "un crook" it to go back.

ttf_daveyboy37 · Post by **ttf_daveyboy37** » Mon Jun 12, 2017 11:37 am

One thing I would do is put the case on the end, and rock it back and forth a bit. If you hear a "thump" that means that the slide is moving back and forth in the slide slot, which is a problem I have noticed with my 640, and I am starting to think my slide alignment issues may be due to the slide moving around.

The earlier cases that had the slide on the top of the case, which also had padding that held it in place, were a lot better IMHO. My 612RII has one of those, and it is solid enough that someone shipped it to me in JUST THE CASE. It got here fine.

ttf_Anorak · Post by **ttf_Anorak** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:30 pm

Just out of curiosity, does the trigger use a mechanical set up rather than string? I can't see on the Yamaha sites (AU or USA). I am after one of these horns, provided it is mechanical!

Cheers!

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:44 pm

My 682 is totally mechanical.

I have seen some with strings, though. The 643 (Conn 88H clone) had a string linkage. Also, some of the 4xx and 3xx horns have strings, but not all.

ttf_Anorak · Post by **ttf_Anorak** » Sun Jun 18, 2017 12:48 pm

Quote from: BGuttman on Jun 18, 2017, 12:44PMMy 682 is totally mechanical.

I have seen some with strings, though. The 643 (Conn 88H clone) had a string linkage. Also, some of the 4xx and 3xx horns have strings, but not all.

Excellent. I play an older Yamaha single bass trombone with a string linkage and I persevere with it only for sentimental reasons. Thanks for the info.

ttf_bassclef · Post by **ttf_bassclef** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:24 am

Quote from: Anorak on Jun 18, 2017, 12:48PMExcellent. I play an older Yamaha single bass trombone with a string linkage and I persevere with it only for sentimental reasons. Thanks for the info.
Are you asking about the 640?

If so, it's mechanical linkage.

ttf_Anorak · Post by **ttf_Anorak** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:29 am

Quote from: bassclef on Jun 19, 2017, 10:24AMAre you asking about the 640?

If so, it's mechanical linkage.

Indeed I was. All confirmed now

ttf_Anorak · Post by **ttf_Anorak** » Mon Jun 19, 2017 10:29 am

Quote from: bassclef on Jun 19, 2017, 10:24AMAre you asking about the 640?

If so, it's mechanical linkage.

Indeed I was. All confirmed now