Shires to Bach trigger for f attachment: will it work?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:21 pm

Have a bach corp 42b. Trigger stinks. Linkage is too short and I don't like the throw nor the trigger itself. Will a shires trigger and linkage work? Want something close to the style with a straight trigger vs the curved bach one.

Jbeckett

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Sat May 06, 2017 3:29 pm

You could probably have a Bach bell, tuning slide and hand slide adapted to a Shires valve section, but I bet it would be costly.

ttf_Burgerbob · Post by **ttf_Burgerbob** » Sat May 06, 2017 4:15 pm

I had a Bach 42BO with a Shires saddle, linkage, and trigger for a while. Definitely made the valve side much more fun to use than the stock setup.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sat May 06, 2017 4:45 pm

I've had Bach linkages adjusted by a tech. A lot can go wrong with them to lead to a poor response including corrosion and misalignment. Once those things are determined to not be the issue, you can have the tech adjust the throw and positioning of the valve. Its just brass or nickel. Not hard to bend into the right shape and likely less than the cost of the parts + doing basically the same thing (adjusting paddles to fit the valve) that you'd do if you were to order the parts and have them added.

ttf_jbeckett · Post by **ttf_jbeckett** » Sat May 06, 2017 4:48 pm

Trying to see if I can buy a shires linkage and make it work on my 42corp. The rotor is fine, it's just the darn linkage.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Sat May 06, 2017 5:25 pm

You might want to look into a miniball conversion. The old ball and socket does tend to get clanky. But maybe it just needs a good cleaning and relube.

ttf_Matt K · Post by **ttf_Matt K** » Sun May 07, 2017 4:13 am

Another thought its to try to get the Yamaha Xeno linkages. I've yet to try a horn with better action than that thing. No idea why it works so well but its really great. NOt as big a fan of the horn itself though!

ttf_Horn Builder · Post by **ttf_Horn Builder** » Sun May 07, 2017 6:35 am

Valve action, and the efficiency of the lever action, is all determined by the geometry of the lever/lever bridge/connecting rod and stop arm on the valve. Simply buying parts from another company is not guaranteed to give you a great lever action, because those parts are designed to fit and work on that brand of instrument. It "may" give yo what you want, (assuming it fits) but you won't know until you have spent the money and installed it. If it "isn't" what you want, you've blown your money.

FWIW...
M

ttf_wgwbassbone · Post by **ttf_wgwbassbone** » Mon May 08, 2017 6:29 am

Quote from: BGuttman on May 06, 2017, 05:25PMYou might want to look into a miniball conversion. The old ball and socket does tend to get clanky. But maybe it just needs a good cleaning and relube.

I would do this.

ttf_Horn Builder · Post by **ttf_Horn Builder** » Mon May 08, 2017 2:02 pm

Please note that if you do a Minibal conversion, (ie, simply replace the existing connecting rod with a rod with Minibals on the ends) the lever action will be no better than it is now if the lever geometry is not changed.....

M

ttf_jbeckett · Post by **ttf_jbeckett** » Wed May 10, 2017 6:46 pm

The shires trigger and linkage is fluid. I'm really thinking that the newer style miniball from Bach would work best.

ttf_Terraplane8Bob · Post by **ttf_Terraplane8Bob** » Wed May 10, 2017 7:02 pm

I remember when Yamaha was seriously breaking in to the USA band instrument business in the 80's. They brought a bunch of trombones to the Kennedy Center in Washington, D.C. and declared an "open house" for anyone to try them. I was totally unimpressed with the trombones in every respect but when they asked my opinion of the horns, [My Mother had raised me to be polite], I kept lavishing praise on the wonderful trigger setup they'd developed. I never warmed up to Yamaha after that, but damn those were great triggers !

ttf_BillO · Post by **ttf_BillO** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:00 pm

Quote from: jbeckett on May 10, 2017, 06:46PMThe shires trigger and linkage is fluid. I'm really thinking that the newer style miniball from Bach would work best.
Shires are now using genuine mini-bal, if I'm not mistaken. However, that said, my Shires is not so quiet. Neither myself, or my tech can figure this out. There is no free play in the bearings or the trigger shaft, and I just put a brand new linkage on it - still it's 'Thunk Thunk'. My first guess was the rubber stoppers are too hard, but my tech says no, they are normal but replaced them anyway. To no avail.

No clue here.

ttf_jbeckett · Post by **ttf_jbeckett** » Wed May 10, 2017 8:10 pm

Also forgot to say that what's on there now is an aftermarket plastic socketed miniball linkage. Plastic cup in a piece of threaded rod pushed onto a metal ball tip.

ttf_BGuttman · Post by **ttf_BGuttman** » Thu May 11, 2017 3:20 am

It's possible the plastic cups are worn out. Also, the linkage resting position can be adjusted by changing the amount the sockets are screwed onto the rod. You may want to have your Tech do the adjustment if you can't figure it out yourself.

I would think that a bit of grease in those sockets (added during install) would make them hold up a bit better.

ttf_jbeckett · Post by **ttf_jbeckett** » Thu May 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Bruce
Glad you replied. Btw, osmun's slide spring installation worked like a charm.
the cups are worn out and the linkage is too short. May have a used linkage in the works. Just didn't know if shires would fit or if anyone had tried it before.

ttf_jbeckett · Post by **ttf_jbeckett** » Thu May 11, 2017 2:00 pm

Bruce
Glad you replied. Btw, osmun's slide spring installation worked like a charm.
the cups are worn out and the linkage is too short. May have a used linkage in the works. Just didn't know if shires would fit or if anyone had tried it before.