1920 Pan American Silver Trombone Refurbishment

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Nov 25, 2016 9:55 pm

Hi there! I haven't been on in almost a year or so at this rate, but I come with news. Just today, I received a 1920 Pan American Silver Trombone (With a inner Brass bell finish) in my hands.

The trombone was found on Ebay in Fort Wayne Indiana. As of November 25th 2016, it is now in Dayton, Ohio. I would love to know if anyone can round up ANY history on this trombone, who it might've been played by or any of that type of information. Serial Number 15505.

It came with it's own Lyre (Without a screw though, but that probably wouldn't be too hard to find.) As well as it's own mouthpiece (Unknown size. Most likely a 12C. Although as I compare it to my 12C that I already have, It has a smaller throat (Minimally) But the same Cup. I can't hit low notes with the mouthpiece, but I can go higher than normal.)

I am first going to show you the pictures of the trombone before I received it myself...

Once I received it, I gave it a quick soapy bath, cleaned up the insides (Which were gunky to say the least.) And also gave it a good wipe down on the outside to ensure I would get a good cleaning when it came down to actually polishing up the old beauty.

My main goals were to polish the slide, as well as the inner bell. (At the time, I believed it was an all-silver instrument. With the inside of the bell being discoloured due to just old wear and tear.

As I was cleaning the bell, I realized that it was actually coming out more brass than it was silver.

I still have a lot of work to do. What I am currently going to do is allow myself some time to get lessons on the trombone (Since I am still a brand new player.) And in the mean time, still work on cleaning it. I know you are only suppose to polish an instrument once a year, at best, but I think if I gave it just one more, simply run down of cleaning it up, it should look like it just came out of the Elkhart facility in 1920.

My main thing is that the plating looks very new still, almost like it was done recently over the last 10 to 30 years. My Conn Valve Trombone is in a worse condition than this instrument is, and the Conn is only 40 to 45 years old at best.

All of the polishing and washing work was done within around 3 to 4 hours. As I spent time looking around for things to clean up the trombone well with. Such as a possible polishing took to really get it polished up without all the manual labor (I gave up on this as no stores had a small polisher at 3")

ttf_Emisaumell · Post by **ttf_Emisaumell** » Tue Nov 29, 2016 8:33 pm

I would let a trombone tech clean the slide.. I once did that to a similar trombone and warped the hell out of the slide. played good harmonically but the slide was unplayable

ttf_Tbonedude · Post by **ttf_Tbonedude** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 2:36 am

Quite a nice looking horn you got there! The Pan-American horns went with a different serial number system than C.G.Conn did. I have one of these, but mine lacks a slide lock, bell tenon screw, slide bumper thing on the crook, and counterweight. Mine was made in 1934, contrary to the 1882 that the Conn serial list claims. Comparing my Pan-American's serial number (78XX) to your Pan-American (155XX), yours could very well be from the 1940s. There's a guy right now trying to compile a Pan-American serial number chart, but it's not finished yet.

Does yours have a number stamped on the top of the bell-side tuning slide leg?

ttf_InfiniteChaos · Post by **ttf_InfiniteChaos** » Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:01 pm

^

I used the Pan-American Serial Number list and it came up as a 1920 Pan American.

I'm using the idea that (13000-19167 = 1920)

I have two serial numbers, both right near the Bell/Slide connection.

ttf_Tbonedude · Post by **ttf_Tbonedude** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 2:41 am

I didn't realize a Pan-American serial list could be found. I found it and determined that you're correct, and my pan-am was built in late 1918.

ttf_silverplussonic · Post by **ttf_silverplussonic** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 7:08 am

Quote from: InfiniteChaos on Nov 25, 2016, 09:55PM
It came with it's own Lyre (Without a screw though, but that probably wouldn't be too hard to find.)

I don't know if this is of any use to you, but I have that exact same lyre, which I use for marching band! Mine still had it's screw with it.

ttf_InfiniteChaos · Post by **ttf_InfiniteChaos** » Thu Dec 01, 2016 8:12 pm

Quote from: Tbonedude on Dec 01, 2016, 02:41AMI didn't realize a Pan-American serial list could be found. I found it and determined that you're correct, and my pan-am was built in late 1918.

Do you have photos of your Pan-Am?

Quote from: silverplussonic on Dec 01, 2016, 07:08AMI don't know if this is of any use to you, but I have that exact same lyre, which I use for marching band! Mine still had it's screw with it.

Is it a dual-spring Lyre? Mine has two separate clips.

ttf_silverplussonic · Post by **ttf_silverplussonic** » Fri Dec 02, 2016 6:35 am

I believe it's just the two clips

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:31 pm

Sorry about being late to the party. The trombone which started this thread at 15505, is likely a 1941 +/- 1 year model 64H.

I am the one who posted the Pan American serial number systems on the Conn Loyalist web site for brass and saxophone. Those systems do not include trombones or other reeds.

I am still developing the Trombone serial system along with reeds and am in process of revising the brass and saxophone systems.

Here's what I have to date:
1) Pan American Trombones prior to WWII look to have been of a low volume production.
2) The earliest I have recorded dates to 1921 and is under the P serial system.
3) However, it looks like in 1923 Pan American started a new serial system at 1, as I have recorded an 8 in the registry.
4) In 1925 they were in the 300's and introduced a slide lock.
5) By 1931 they were into the 6800's, introduced a thumb rest and used a Glob & Eagle engraving.
6) In 1940 the were well into the 14600's and change engraving to a Marching Men motif much like the Parent Conn Ltd did in 1934.
7) The highest consistent number I have representing pre WWII is 17075. However, I have a skip to the 20000's, then a skip to the 60,000's and then a skip to the 150000's.

With only 268 trombones in the registry, I can't yet explain the skips, but it looks like after WWII, at the 1948 restart of Pan American trombones did become part of the brass serial system.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Fri Jul 28, 2017 11:31 pm

Sorry about being late to the party. The trombone which started this thread at 15505, is likely a 1941 +/- 1 year model 64H.

I am the one who posted the Pan American serial number systems on the Conn Loyalist web site for brass and saxophone. Those systems do not include trombones or other reeds.

I am still developing the Trombone serial system along with reeds and am in process of revising the brass and saxophone systems.

Here's what I have to date:
1) Pan American Trombones prior to WWII look to have been of a low volume production.
2) The earliest I have recorded dates to 1921 and is under the P serial system.
3) However, it looks like in 1923 Pan American started a new serial system at 1, as I have recorded an 8 in the registry.
4) In 1925 they were in the 300's and introduced a slide lock.
5) By 1931 they were into the 6800's, introduced a thumb rest and used a Glob & Eagle engraving.
6) In 1940 the were well into the 14600's and change engraving to a Marching Men motif much like the Parent Conn Ltd did in 1934.
7) The highest consistent number I have representing pre WWII is 17075. However, I have a skip to the 20000's, then a skip to the 60,000's and then a skip to the 150000's.

With only 268 trombones in the registry, I can't yet explain the skips, but it looks like after WWII, at the 1948 restart of Pan American trombones did become part of the brass serial system.