Musicians & hearing aids?

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 4:58 pm

Just curious---are there very many of us who wear hearing aids? If you do, do you think that playing regularly in bands has caused (or made worse) your hearing loss?

The reason I ask---I've worn hearing aids since my late 20's (I'm 41 now), and at my routine hearing check-up earlier this week, I mentioned to my doctor that I'd joined the community band and was once again playing my trombone. He said that was great, then hesitated a moment, and said "You DO wear hearing protection, don't you?" I said no, I sit on the back row, not in front of trumpets or anything like that. He then asked if I wear my hearing aids during practice. I said I did--I do have to be able to hear the director! Well, the doctor was not pleased.

So, it has led me to wonder if I'm the only one around here who is in the same boat? I know of at least a couple of other people in our band who wear hearing aids--one is a high school band director. Surely there are some folks in this forum who also have some hearing difficulties--how do you handle these things? Quite frankly, I never thought twice about it---I'm just grateful that I have wonderful hearing aids and that I can enjoy the music! Any thoughts or suggestions??

ttf_SLewis · Post by **ttf_SLewis** » Fri Oct 24, 2003 6:19 pm

The players in front of the trumpets are apt to suffer hearing loss. Our bassoon player said she is a little deaf from sitting in jazz band in front. Maybe you could turn them down a bit, they're for speech not music. I mean, I find that conductors'soft voices or mumbling when you can't read lips are hard to fathom. So you could ask someone to repeat what the director said anyway. Ours likes for us to pencil on the music. Your stand mate could do that.
I have one deaf ear and one good ear so there are no aids I could use. Marching band was a little hard. I had a prompter.
The ENT doctor said that I should be careful not to listen to loud music.
We have several members with hearing aids.
Our university has one teacher who is losing his hearing after teaching jazz band in a small room. It could have been prevented.

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Sat Oct 25, 2003 1:13 pm

Well, I think I'll just have to experiment a little. Very little of my hearing loss to this point can be attributed to playing or listening to music--most of it is conductive due to an inherited problem with the bones in my middle ear. I'll try going to practice without wearing my hearing aids, and see how it goes. You're right in that it is frustrating when people mumble

I was just curious as to how others handle similar problems, if anyone has a similar situation. I sure don't want to lose any more hearing faster than necessary, but I do need to be able to hear well enough to keep up and play.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Sun Oct 26, 2003 3:14 pm

I am one of those "many members" wearing hearing aids. I've had mine from the age of 7 (now 18). If your hearing aids are fairly advanced they should what is known as a compression circuit that keeps them from amplifying noise that is too loud, eventually turning them effectively into earplugs. The only real gripe I have with that is that the circuit tends to get saturated at that point and makes wierd clicking noises. How old are your aids? Also how cheap are they? Did they get fitted to your hearing loss or were they a catalog order or something of that nature?

BTW We seem to have opposite hearing tendencies. I'm lousy in the middle and very good in the high and low. How bad is your loss? In the worst part of my range, I can only hear noises louder than 80dB. This happens to be the range where female voices sit.

Might come in useful in a few years.

It's also probably why I like Bass Bone and Lead Trumpet the best. Love Cat Andersons solo on Bellson's Intimacy of the Blues.

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 1:13 am

My hearing aids are only two years old, and are programmable digital aids that I got through my doctor's office. He has an audiologist in his office. I decided my best bet is to talk to my audiologist about what I need to do. If, as you say, these can filter out sounds that are too loud, then I'd be better off wearing the aids than wearing any type of earplugs, I think. That would actually make sense, since when I play with the band it is not uncomfortably loud at all. I have a policy that if it's uncomfortably loud with my aids, I just turn them off but continue to wear them. Then it just sounds like I have cotton in my ears---very useful at football games when they blast those darn speakers at such loud volumes

You're right--there can be times when it is nice to be able to just take the hearing aids off and get some peace and quiet. Although in a few years if you do that to filter out female voices it could cause a female person to get a bit frustrated with you

You've been coping with a hearing loss since you were pretty young--I guess you must have found some pretty good ways to deal with it by now. I have not noticed a clicking noise in my hearing aids from the circuits in my hearing aids, but then I have tinnitis (ringing in my ears)all the time and it tends to mask noises like that.

Well, thanks for the feedback. I have to admit, I don't know a lot about HOW my hearing aids work, but just that they do work well and I really depend on them.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 8:44 am

[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]quote:[/font][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Originally posted by tbone62:
You've been coping with a hearing loss since you were pretty young--I guess you must have found some pretty good ways to deal with it by now. I have not noticed a clicking noise in my hearing aids from the circuits in my hearing aids, but then I have tinnitis (ringing in my ears)all the time and it tends to mask noises like that.

Well, thanks for the feedback. I have to admit, I don't know a lot about HOW my hearing aids work, but just that they do work well and I really depend on them. [/font]

[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Actually.... From the beginning. I just coped so well it took us three years after I failed the first hearing test in Kindergarten to actually convince a doctor I had a hearing loss.

I lipread very naturally. And I could speak very well, though my mom recently told me that the doctors thought wiht my hearing loss I should not be able to speak right now. Of course after I got a 770/800 on the SAT verbal, we've decided that English grammar is not really a very big issue for me.

Oops gotta run to class, post a little more later.

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:44 pm

Those SAT scores are awesome!

I got a 759 on my SAT verbal section, but that was now many years ago

However, I didn't have any hearing loss at that time--at least not anything noticeable. Mine didn't start to get bad until I was about 23 or so. That your scores were so high with your extent of hearing loss in the conversational frequencies is pretty remarkable.

You know, I think that although I've always absolutely loved music (I was playing the piano some by ear when I was 5) I appreciate it more now. I mean, although my hearing is pretty stable now, and probably won't ever get to the point where I just can't hear anything, I don't know that for sure. So it's almost like I'm on this mission to listen as much as I can now and enjoy!

By the way, I spoke briefly to my audiologist this afternoon, and asked about whether she thought I was damaging my hearing by wearing my hearing aids at practice. She said basically what you did---that they would only amplify the sound up to a point. She also said that she played in concert band (fellow musician

)for years and that generally the volume shouldn't be loud enough to cause me any damage, especially since I'm not sitting in front of anyone else. I have an appointment with her next Wednesday, and I plan to discuss it with her further.

Well, better run. Write more later, if you get a chance. It's great to be able to compare notes with someone who's kinda in the same boat!

ttf_TimS · Post by **ttf_TimS** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 3:59 pm

[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]quote:[/font][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Originally posted by tbone62:
I got a 759 on my SAT verbal section[/font]

[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]How exactly did you manage that?

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 4:47 pm

[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]quote:[/font][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Originally posted by TimS:
[/font]
[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]quote:[/font][font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]Originally posted by tbone62:
I got a 759 on my SAT verbal section[/font]
[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]How exactly did you manage that? [/font]

[font=Verdana, Geneva, sans-serif]My guess is he missed the 0 key and hit the 9 key.

Yes I have been very blessed. I only got a 780 on the math portion(well "only" when compared to my 800's on the Math and Physics subject tests

)

Yeah, gotta run help someone with their Calc homework.

ttf_SLewis · Post by **ttf_SLewis** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 6:48 pm

Tbone,
Can you hear "s","sh" and "ch"? Those are high frequency sounds. I have an appointment with the ear doctor for my nephew, who missed a high frequency sound last year. That nurse said it was not a speech level-how do I know he doesn't need this sound? His mother can't hear well at all. It doesn't seem to be inherited, but we were sick with high fevers when young. 3 of us are deaf in at least one ear.
Is there a nice way to tell a tall trombonist that he is really loud? He wears hearing aids, by the way. He hurts my ears. I'm not that sure about the other ear. But excess sound hurts my eardrums.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:03 pm

It should be she in that last post not he, sorry. Forgot I heard you mention your husband in another thread.

Um... Yeah with appreciation of music..... I credit my hearing loss for my appreciation of jazz. (and to a lesser degree classical). My hearing is such that it is impossible to hear the words of just about anybody who sings with background. So I listen to instrumental music, because I can still get a general sense of the music without totally missing out cause the whole point of the song is bound in lyrics. This is also why I absolutely despise country (at least in terms of me listening to it. If I've got the lyrics sitting in front of me, so I can follow along, I find they have some of the greatest bits of poetry) But Country is all in the lyrics. The background is just the same 4,8 or 12 bars repeated over and over, with super boring bass lines. If you like any kind of pop music try listening to something new and completely block the lyrics out of your mind. See how much you like it then. But yeah, if I could hear the words I would probably appreciate it a lot more. But that's just me.

Do you have numbers for your loss? I'm trying to get a sense of how bad it really is for you. I have a sister with a similar problem in shape, but she has much more residual hearing than I do. It is different enough that we cannot use the same hearing aids. Mine can't be made soft enough for her ears and hers can't be made loud enough for my ears. She doesn't have the same problem with saturated circuits that I do.

Also with tinnitus, how often do you get noises in your ears? I'll hear sounds maybe 1-2 times a month, but haven't ever been diagnosed with tinnitus. As far as I can tell it isn't a daily occurrence for me, but I get them every so often.

ttf_SLewis · Post by **ttf_SLewis** » Mon Oct 27, 2003 7:14 pm

I do not hear even thunder in my bad ear, and at the last test, the nazi hearing aid tech had it turned up until it really vibrated through the bone. Reminded me of beginning band when the teacher was late. A guy no one liked tooted a baritone in my ear. Yikes.
I like the wooden stage we played on tonight. The auditorium resonated.
That's interesting about the non-familiar family hearing aids.

ttf_phonyreal98 · Post by **ttf_phonyreal98** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 12:44 am

Let's see, on a previous post, I mentioned that I was born with a pretty large hearing loss (about 50%). Well, I had surgery when I was seven and the doctor removed a bone in the middle of the ear canal. When I was eleven-twelve, I used to have a hearing aid, but then I lost it. Well, anyway, turning it on didn't really help me much to play better and turning it off meant that I didn't have to listen to the trumpets blat all of the time. It's been about two and a half years since my first hearing aid, and now, I'm getting another one.

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 1:12 am

Well, I'll try to provide a little clarification.

My hearing loss on an audiogram more or less makes an upside-down U shape on the graph. My best hearing is in the middle frequencies (where speech falls generally)--I have about a 35-40 decibel loss there.

In the higher frequencies it drops off to about an 80 decibel loss in one ear, but is not quite so bad in the other. Low frequencies drop off to about a 60 decibel loss.

Less technical---I miss lots of background noises like airplanes and traffic and thunder. Everything I hear sounds kind of flat without my hearing aids, with no depth to the sound.

SLewis, as to your question about s, sh, and ch: I can hear all those sounds, but it depends somewhat on the circumstances and the volume. If someone is within about 10 feet from me and speaking in a normal tone of voice, I can usually pick up most of what they say. If someone is soft-spoken, they need to be closer. I have much more trouble when they are not facing me. I hear very little that happens outside the room I happen to be in, unless it's pretty loud. For example, I frequently forget to turn off water becasue I can't hear it well. I don't hear thunder unless it's practically over my head and loud, and I don't usually hear airplanes until long after everyone else does. I can't hear the refrigerator hum. And I almost never hear someone walking up behind me, so I get startled a lot.

I also have tinnitis (ringing in my ears)ALL the time. It never stops. It sounds kinda like crickets at dusk. In fact, I often don't notice crickets (which in Alabama can get pretty loud) because they sound just like my tinnitis, so I just disregard them!

But, with my hearing aids everything sounds wonderful. Lots of "depth" of sound. Conversations are pretty easy to follow, and I can even sometimes hear my cat purr (one of my favorite sounds).

SLewis--it all depends on what frequencies your nephew has problems with. Generally, high-frequency loss will mean that someone might have more trouble understanding female voices, and might miss the endings on words. I would suggest talking to an audiologist about your nephew's problems, and see what they suggest. I wonder if maybe there's some hereditary problem going on, since it sounds like you have several family members with pretty significant hearing problems. My sister and I both have otosclerosis, which causes the bones of the middle ear to soften, then harden and causes them to be less able to conduct sound. Fortunately for us, surgery to replace one of those bones can often help restore some degree of hearing, and hearing aids help considerably. It is usually genetic.

Well, gotta run and get kids up for school! Hope this is semi-coherent---It's early!!!

ttf_SLewis · Post by **ttf_SLewis** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 2:04 pm

Good hearing aid story! I have almost stepped in front of a firebird, it was not revving but kind of coasting until the speed limit 40 mph sign up the road. If a kid had been driving...! I don't enjoy bike riding because I can't hear cars behind me and there is no shoulder here, only ditches. There is no right of way when a car wants to turn. In fact you'd think walking along this road was hill country, with one leg sliding.
Back in the Stone Ages, in high school marching band, the teacher didn't let the drum major start us. T. was far away and I couldn't hear him, so a boy cued me.
We met a man who had the surgery for otoschlerotus(sp) twice. It worked but he sneezed and blew out one ear. He didn't want to sneeze but it just happened. So the doctor will do one ear again.
Note; my father had his hearing restored last week; he had excess wax that was removed.

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Tue Oct 28, 2003 3:54 pm

You know, I frequently check in with a message board for the deaf and hearing impaired, and some of the stories about things that happen to people because they can't hear! We usually have a good laugh over some of the more ridiculous ones--like the lady who's overflowed the bathtub so many times that she's now started "mopping up" with sheets instead of towels because they dry faster! She starts the water, goes in the other room to check on children or whatever, and forgets about it. People with normal hearing will hear the water running and not forget about it. I know this because I've done the same thing

Of course, there are frustrating incidents, too, but generally I try to see the funny side of things. I also am uncomfortable riding a bike because I can't hear cars approaching from behind--at least without my hearing aids, which I don't wear when exercising because dampness from perspiration is bad for them.

And the advantages--like phonyreal considers it an advantage to be able to hear the trumpets at a lower volume. I sometimes consider it an advantage to hear my kids fussing at a lower volume

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 4:56 pm

Just in case anyone's interested, I found out about some good websites concerning hearing loss and musicians.

www.hearnet.com
www.thirdage.com/news/archive/970228-05.html

There were actually a couple of others, but I can't seem to get the links posted here so that they will work properly.

Some pretty interesting reading. I can't take credit for finding these sites--one of my Deaf/Hearing Impaired Bulletin Board friends referred me to these.

ttf_anonymous · Post by **ttf_anonymous** » Tue Nov 18, 2003 7:11 pm

How about links to these Deaf/Hearing Impaired boards.

Anyone else had trouble getting hearing aid batteries near college? I can't find a place within two miles that sells them. Funny Story: It seems like the gas stations back home carried batteries, so I went into one near campus searching desparately for them. After rummaging through the store, I finally went up to what looked like the owner (he's about 60) I said, "So you're too close to a college to carry hearing aid batteriesm, huh?"

"Beg your pardon?"

ttf_tbone62 · Post by **ttf_tbone62** » Wed Nov 19, 2003 1:47 am

Try this:

www.ivillagehealth.com/boards/

You should see two long lists of message boards. At the bottom of the right-hand column, you should come to one that says Deaf & Hearing Impaired. Click on that and it should take you directly to the right message board.

You know, I usually end up at Wal-Mart to get my hearing aid batteries. I've also noticed that Radio Shack (of all places)has them.

It sounds like the guy you asked about hearing aid batteries might need some himself!

ttf_Japle · Post by **ttf_Japle** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 2:38 pm

I have a new pair of state-of-the-art hearing aids. Theyre adjustable for volume (13 levels) and have 5 environmental settings. Setting #1 is normal, #1 is restaurant and #3 is concert hall. The last two arent programed right now. The things communicate by Bluetooth, right through the middle of my brain.

I dont use them when Im playing. Usually, I have trumpets behind me and my audiologist warned me that such loud sounds would overdrive the amps and burn them out. I leave them in my case. I often wear modified Hearos plugs in jazz bands.

I think my hearing loss (Im 69 years old) comes from a combination of 27 years of military service, very loud sounds in a manufacturing job I had after retiring from the USAF and the trumpets. Tinnitis is constant, but for some reason wearing the hearing aids makes it much less noticeable.

ttf_Max Croot · Post by **ttf_Max Croot** » Mon Feb 23, 2015 4:50 pm

Hi. Your hearing on the Healthy Trombonist site gives a lot of useful info. We are very lucky here in Australia because people on a pension get free hearing aids every 5 years and for a small maintenance fee, free batteries as well. I have had hearing aids for years with no problems except with ladies voices and our concert band conductor is a lady. Max.

ttf_AZTBNDAD · Post by **ttf_AZTBNDAD** » Fri Feb 27, 2015 2:07 pm

Kinda sideways on this topic...

When my son (BM Performance Major, Bass 'Bone) told me that he was getting tinnitus, I made a quick beeline to the local audiologist and had Musician's Earplugs made for him. He wears them religiously at all his rehearsals and performances now.

He got some serious kudos from his professors and studio-mates.

I would encourage all students at the college level to make the investment.

ttf_Driswood · Post by **ttf_Driswood** » Mon Apr 06, 2015 5:55 am

We all have a natural, built in defense for loud sounds. Our ear drums will "tighten", to reduce vibrations, thus protecting the nerves in our auditory canal. My left ear goes into spasms when experiencing loud sounds, and "locks up" for a few seconds. Sounds like a shorted out speaker. My audiologist says it's triggered by too much caffeine.

Places where I rarely have a problem? Rock band, jazz band (sitting in front of trumpets) and directing concert bands.

Where it ALWAYS happens? Symphony. That back row is REALLY loud!

I'm in the process of getting hearing aids, as I have a severe high frequency loss in my left ear. Caused by driving a tractor in my teenage years. When doing field work, you look over your right shoulder while plowing, disking, baling, etc. This points your left ear directly at the diesel muffler. Unfortunately, we didn't know as much about hearing protection in the 60's as we do now.

Jerry Walker

ttf_Geordie · Post by **ttf_Geordie** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 4:40 am

Thank you for organizing the hearing related topics so well and helping me find this thread. Hoping for some advice.

I have eventually confronted long term hearing loss in my left ear. Still have hearing there but it is limited, particularly in higher frequencies. Hard to have a conversation with background noise. Have now had audiology tests and spoken to an Ear Nose and Throat consultant at hospital. Next step is to try a digital hearing aid. This will happen in the coming weeks and I am asking questions to help prepare for that discussion.

First question is if any one has advice or recommendations eg manufacturer, use, settings, questions I should ask etc.

As my hearing loss is a result of reduced conduction, as opposed to nerve transmission limitations, this hearing aid may not make much of an improvement. Have discussed with the doctor a possible cochlea implant if the hearing aid is unsatisfactory. Next question is to ask if anyone has experienced this and has any advice or suggestions.

I am based in North West England, mainly playing in soul/blues band but with outings into wind band and traditional brass band as and when.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 5:29 am

I don't play with any really loud groups, and am super careful to use hearing protection around loud machinery. Still, I have age related loss of high frequencies. I think it has yet to affect my performance, but it makes me wonder at what point intonation becomes a problem.

I bring this up because I play and sing with a couple of people who really shouldn't anymore. I don't mean to sound critical of anybody in this thread who is finding strategies to cope with their hearing loss and still play.

I sing with someone who has significant hearing loss. He has good pitch memory and generally sings the right notes, I guess from a lifetime of being a musician.

But he can no longer hear the accompaniment over the choir (not sure how much of the choir he hears), and he loses the tempo pretty quickly. He's caused a number of train wrecks when his section has a soli, because he'll sing confidently at the wrong speed. I have other examples and I'm sure you do too.

Personally I'm determined to gracefully bow out when I think I'm no longer an asset - enjoy the performances from the audience instead, and let the youngsters have it.

ttf_Geordie · Post by **ttf_Geordie** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:00 am

Quote from: timothy42b on Yesterday at 05:29 AM
I bring this up because I play and sing with a couple of people who really shouldn't anymore. I don't mean to sound critical of anybody in this thread who is finding strategies to cope with their hearing loss and still play.

The people who pay me to play appear not to put me in that category.

ttf_timothy42b · Post by **ttf_timothy42b** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 6:34 am

Quote from: Geordie on Yesterday at 06:00 AMThe people who pay me to play appear not to put me in that category.

Yes, that's the true test. As long as they're paying, you know you're performing.

Volunteer groups are a different story. Sometimes there is no way to compassionately break the news, or there are other social considerations.

ttf_Geordie · Post by **ttf_Geordie** » Fri Jul 07, 2017 9:31 am

Absolutely Agree Tim. Have seen that too.

ttf_Geordie · Post by **ttf_Geordie** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:59 pm

Bumping my questions from last week about hearing aids and cochlea implant ....

ttf_Geordie · Post by **ttf_Geordie** » Sun Jul 09, 2017 2:59 pm

Bumping my questions from last week about hearing aids and cochlea implant ....