Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

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ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: Ellrod on Oct 28, 2008, 11:55AMMy experience with a Laskey 93 (I have been trying the big piece for about 2 weeks now) so far is that it sounds fine at home but the sound tends to get a little lost in the big band.  I think this is due to a darker warmer sound that gets covered up in all that stuff down in that register, particularly the rhythm section and partly because I am used to hearing the warmer sound and a bit of an edge with my Black 1 1/2G. 


Do you mean darker and warmer or dull and diffuse ? Image
Keep us posted on your progress, it could be very interesting.
There are some people out there who can make big mouthpieces sound great.... there are not many of them and they tend to be full time pros...... and there's no telling how much extra effort it takes.... but if you want THAT sound, you gotta do it.
..and to address the other sub topic... the Holton 169 is the most underrated bassbone out there. If you work out how to use one, it's a monster. I agree with Sam about the singing quality... a good 169 feels alive in your hands.

Chris Stearn
ttf_Birdy
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Birdy »

Quote from: ali.syme on Oct 28, 2008, 01:39PMHrumm...I started with a tiny Yamaha creation. I got a Bach Bass Trombone, and moved to the 1 1/2G which I don't regret in the slightest - a perfect mouthpiece for learning pedal notes and developing a good range on a larger instrument. "This is a great mouthpiece - I'm learning so much," I thought. "What'll happen if I used a Douglas Yeo creation? He seems to find it useful".

How that man can call his signature mouthpiece a success is beyond me. Luckily, none of my money has ended up in his hands. But he might as well have stolen a tuba mouthpiece and written his name on it for all it's worth. I tried "working in" the Yeo but no - no chance. It's like working a bucket on to your face.

I've decided my next bass will be a Rath - and I'd try keep the Bach mouthpiece. But if I'm moving mouthpiece and want to hold on to the same sound I'm getting from the Bach Bach combo, I'd for for a Model BT-1 (Monette) designed with John Englekist, principal bass trombone of the San Francisco Symphony. It's has all that middle range quality you want in a trombone without too much of a polite orchestral sound when moving to concert band or jazz band.

The rim of any mouthpiece depends on how flexible your lip technique is (in my opinion). Early on, the restrictions of the mouthpiece were clear from the feeling around the lip particularly at the top. In something like the yeo, you can't get comfortable developing flexible lips because the thing starts at your nose and ends at the bottom of your chin.

Simply an opinion - but in conclusion, developing skills on pedal notes demands a mouthpiece like the 1 1/2G.

Ali Syme

He probably thinks it's a success as it was designed for him and he can get exactly what he wants from it.

Doesn't make it great for everybody else though......

Personally I played the Yeo for approx 12 months. At the time I thought it was the dog's wotsits and used it to develop my trigger and pedal register. Then a change in work forced a move smaller as I couldn't play as often and I quickly found out that a mouthpiece like the Yeo requires a lot of face time.

Once I'd got used to the 1.5 size again I found that I could still keep my sound as big providing I thought more about embouchure placement and how I was using my air. My concept of sound and how I wanted to be heard also changed at this time as I stopped chasing the humongous 'sonic bazooka' noise that certain exponents in the UK were getting noted for.

I recently changed instruments to a Duo Gravis. This instrument and a 1.5 sized piece are a match made in heaven. Now all of a sudden I've got much more varied and interesting sounds at my disposal. Our principal cornet player remarked to me that my sound now 'has a more ringing quality to it, reminds me of Ray Premru'.

I'm not stupid enough to think that I now sound like him, but I took it as a big complement all the same  Image

I also tried a couple of 59 sized mouthpieces with it just to see what the result was. To me it didn't work at all well and a big mouthpiece does not suit that horn at all.
ttf_boneagain
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_boneagain »

Birdy,

I totally agree with how well the 1 1/2G works with the Duo Gravis.  So does Alan Raph, who as a key player in the design of the horn. 

I have read of others on the Forum who swear by larger mouthpieces on this horn.  For me I just find the other sizes require too many compromises in high AND low range, coloration options, and volume possibilities.  I can do any ONE aspect of any ONE of those things BETTER with any of a number of mouthpieces.  But the only MP I can (with enough "face time") get all of them with is a 1 1/2G. 

Now that I hear you sound like Ray Premru I'm even more anxious for you to get your horn Rath'd and post some MP3 files here!



ttf_CRWV
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_CRWV »

I don't mean to digress, but a point I've been thinking about recently resurfaced just now after rereading some of the early posts in this thread;

Has trombone writing slowly gotten lower and lower in pitch?

With certain exceptions, (Shostakovich 5 ending, some Hindemith etc.,.) It seems that the further back you go, the higher the trombone parts sat. As time when on, composers went lower and lower (I've been playing some stuff in Wind Ensemble where the first player is hardly above the staff).

My question (assuming my logic above is reasonable) is, which came first? are trombone players adjusting to the writing, or are composers adjusting to the players. (or both...)
ttf_Jox
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Jox »

Quote from: CRWV on Oct 28, 2008, 09:44PMI don't mean to digress, but a point I've been thinking about recently resurfaced just now after rereading some of the early posts in this thread;

Has trombone writing slowly gotten lower and lower in pitch?

With certain exceptions, (Shostakovich 5 ending, some Hindemith etc.,.) It seems that the further back you go, the higher the trombone parts sat. As time when on, composers went lower and lower (I've been playing some stuff in Wind Ensemble where the first player is hardly above the staff).

My question (assuming my logic above is reasonable) is, which came first? are trombone players adjusting to the writing, or are composers adjusting to the players. (or both...)

Both. Older stuff has high parts and new stuff has lower stuff. I think that to people, the bass trombone is really getting itself seperated and diffused from the tenor trombone. I view the bass trombone as the same thing cept it has a bigger sound and more facility in the lower register and other stuff. Not too much different. From the audience stand point in the crowd, it basically sounds the same. Most of the time stuff is not mainly too much below the octave cept in some modern wind pieces. Now people really don't expect bass trombones to play above a high F. In sousa and goldman marches the 3rd trombone is in unison above high Fs. I hate it but it's something I have to deal with. I have seen a wind score where the bass trombone starts off in pedal Ds in accented fortissimo quarter notes with the tubas and later goes to Cs. Now is it just the modern expectations or is it dumb composers? I can do it if given a chance to work up to it but I do no't know if it is good writing for tubas.
ttf_johngsteel
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_johngsteel »

I use a Kanstul George Roberts Autograph, and a 1 1/2 GM.  This combo works great for me.
ttf_Birdy
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Birdy »

Quote from: boneagain on Oct 28, 2008, 06:03PMBirdy,

I totally agree with how well the 1 1/2G works with the Duo Gravis.  So does Alan Raph, who as a key player in the design of the horn. 

I have read of others on the Forum who swear by larger mouthpieces on this horn.  For me I just find the other sizes require too many compromises in high AND low range, coloration options, and volume possibilities.  I can do any ONE aspect of any ONE of those things BETTER with any of a number of mouthpieces.  But the only MP I can (with enough "face time") get all of them with is a 1 1/2G. 

Now that I hear you sound like Ray Premru I'm even more anxious for you to get your horn Rath'd and post some MP3 files here!




It's booked in for the last week in November, I'll see what I can do after that......
ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

I'll agree the Yeo is good for developing a lower register but for me it seems like a party mouth piece...I've been creating friction in another thread saying it wasn't worth the trouble but I assume everyone knows that posts are based on opinion and I don't consider myself an expert on it!

Switching to a Rath and keeping my 1 1/2G is the objective - my Bach's triggers rattle and it's an Eb valve rather than a D. It could last a few more years with repairs but it'll always have the rattle - not the best for recordings.

Trouble with the 1 1/2G is getting that ringing quality - but if you achieve that ring with the Bach I think it's down to good playing and technique rather than the mouthpiece.
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

I hope I don't sound like all must play a 1 1/2g? Maybe I do but thats not the meaning. Svenne, You mention Holy Grail mouthpiece? After a long search: No.  But like Chris says the 1 1/2g is a seriously choice. Nothing more.

I have an ideal and I believe we all have? If I find a way to get closer to my ideal and practice more I think you applaud that?

I listen to all bass trombone music I can find and right now I enjoy the sound of Randall Hawes. Wonderful, just wonderful. I believe all pro bass trombone players today have a sound to die for? The bass trombone is a sound instrument. I think its very difficult to find a bass trombone player with a bad sound these days? Even in the kitchen...

Leif
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: ali.syme on Oct 31, 2008, 10:47AMI'll agree the Yeo is good for developing a lower register but for me it seems like a party mouth piece...I've been creating friction in another thread saying it wasn't worth the trouble but I assume everyone knows that posts are based on opinion and I don't consider myself an expert on it!

Switching to a Rath and keeping my 1 1/2G is the objective - my Bach's triggers rattle and it's an Eb valve rather than a D. It could last a few more years with repairs but it'll always have the rattle - not the best for recordings.

Trouble with the 1 1/2G is getting that ringing quality - but if you achieve that ring with the Bach I think it's down to good playing and technique rather than the mouthpiece.


Nice to hear that you have enough recording work in Glasgow for that rattle to be a problem.... I find a bit of lube works wonders.
Ringing quality to the sound ? Most Bach 1 1/2G users seem to get a very fine sound... or is it the ringing of a phone with work that you are seeking ?
You can always buy a 'D' slide for your Bach, or learn to love Eb as I have... after years on a 'D' slide.
You should check Doug Yeo on youtube.... He seems to get results from his model of mouthpiece.
Chris Stearn
ttf_Tobbe
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Tobbe »

Quote from: blast on Mar 09, 2006, 12:49PMThe finest Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G that I have EVER come across !!
Going back a couple of hundred of replies (wonder how many of them being off topic ImageImageImage Maybe it's not that important as I was told, staying within the topic replying??? Image), to the original post and adding my reply to one of the BIGGEST topic in my history of this forum...
Sorry to admit, but I have never tried a Mt Vernon 1 1/2G actually only just one Mt Vernon MP at all, a 12C I think it was. Not big enough for me being a pro bass trombonist  Image
Anyone on the forum willing to let me try one before my last supper ever?
Or are they out of stock??? Image

ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: Tobbe on Oct 31, 2008, 12:51PMGoing back a couple of hundred of replies (wonder how many of them being off topic ImageImageImage Maybe it's not that important as I was told, staying within the topic replying??? Image), to the original post and adding my reply to one of the BIGGEST topic in my history of this forum...
Sorry to admit, but I have never tried a Mt Vernon 1 1/2G actually only just one Mt Vernon MP at all, a 12C I think it was. Not big enough for me being a pro bass trombonist  Image
Anyone on the forum willing to let me try one before my last supper ever?
Or are they out of stock??? Image


Tobbe, its me thats often is out of topic here. I think the moderators have given me up.......  Image It will not be any use for you to trying a MT Vernon. You need maybe 2 month on that size of mouthpiece before you can notice any difference. But the point is size.........and sound........not Bach or Denis Wick...... what do you like soundwise??? 

Leif
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Well Tobbe, you have to keep a look out on ebay, on the forum ads and everywhere else that such a mouthpiece might come up. Image Image Image
 The best Bach 1 1/2Gs I have tried/owned have been Mt Vernon, but some later ones have come close.
The nearest to these available now are the Faxx (a bit small) the Greg Black (very good, but slightly different sound) or the Enigma (only a few created by a madman from unpromising beginnings  Image Image Image) Generally, you can't buy an Enigma... they arrive in the post if you are lucky  Image Image but you never get one if you ask for one... not any more.

Chris Stearn
ttf_anonymous
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_anonymous »

Enigma-that's what this post is about....
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: savio on Oct 31, 2008, 11:17AM
I listen to all bass trombone music I can find and right now I enjoy the sound of Randall Hawes. Wonderful, just wonderful. I believe all pro bass trombone players today have a sound to die for? The bass trombone is a sound instrument. I think its very difficult to find a bass trombone player with a bad sound these days? Even in the kitchen...

Leif

Randy Hawes was a guest Moderator for awhile many moons ago. He talked about how he came to land an orchestral job, his life on the road in one the ghost big bands and his recording of Mellowdrama. I think he said he was playing a 60 or 60 sized DE mouthpiece for the recording. His tale of focus and perseverance was very motivational to me.
ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

Quote from: blast on Oct 31, 2008, 12:01PM
Nice to hear that you have enough recording work in Glasgow for that rattle to be a problem.... I find a bit of lube works wonders.
Ringing quality to the sound ? Most Bach 1 1/2G users seem to get a very fine sound... or is it the ringing of a phone with work that you are seeking ?
You can always buy a 'D' slide for your Bach, or learn to love Eb as I have... after years on a 'D' slide.
You should check Doug Yeo on youtube.... He seems to get results from his model of mouthpiece.
Chris Stearn

I don't know if it's a defect or just something that's become loose over time but lube doesn't seem to work Image. It actually gives a pretty irritating ringing in my ear when I'm using the trigger! And the C with an Eb slide is difficult to judge for me - I've been searching out a D but it's not urgent.

I used the Yeo at a concert band recently - It actually allowed me to play tuba parts quite well! Still trouble with mispitches high up but still I don't want to change to it.

Audition for RSAMD soonish - McCarty's Sonata is good for the second trigger stuff.

Ali
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: ali.syme on Nov 03, 2008, 10:41AMI don't know if it's a defect or just something that's become loose over time but lube doesn't seem to work Image. It actually gives a pretty irritating ringing in my ear when I'm using the trigger! And the C with an Eb slide is difficult to judge for me - I've been searching out a D but it's not urgent.

I used the Yeo at a concert band recently - It actually allowed me to play tuba parts quite well! Still trouble with mispitches high up but still I don't want to change to it.

Audition for RSAMD soonish - McCarty's Sonata is good for the second trigger stuff.

Ali


Tune the second valve so that C is in the same place as D on the F side.
Look for the music in the McCarty.
Lots of bass bones auditioning this year... good luck... I'll probably not be on the panel, but I will check the results.
Bigbone from the forum is auditioning too.

Chris Stearn
ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

Quote from: blast on Nov 03, 2008, 12:57PM
Tune the second valve so that C is in the same place as D on the F side.
Look for the music in the McCarty.
Lots of bass bones auditioning this year... good luck... I'll probably not be on the panel, but I will check the results.
Bigbone from the forum is auditioning too.

Chris Stearn
Cheers! There's the odd C, E, B but I'm doing in 7th so that might help anyway.

I'm just going for the feedback really - aiming for composition anyway!

Cheers

Ali
ttf_johngsteel
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_johngsteel »

Tobbe,

Kanstul can recreate a Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G.  The only major difference is the label...
ttf_Tobbe
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Tobbe »

Quote from: johngsteel on Nov 03, 2008, 01:24PMTobbe,

Kanstul can recreate a Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G.  The only major difference is the label...

Then I just need an original to make a copy...  Image Image
ttf_Birdy
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Birdy »

Quote from: johngsteel on Nov 03, 2008, 01:24PMTobbe,

Kanstul can recreate a Mt. Vernon Bach 1 1/2G.  The only major difference is the label...

Isn't the Rath 1 1/2 also taken from an MV 1 1/2?
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: Birdy on Nov 05, 2008, 12:01PMIsn't the Rath 1 1/2 also taken from an MV 1 1/2?


The Rath B1 1/2W was a copy of my wide rim Mt Vernon ! 1/2G, but the backbore was changed and the overall length was reduced, so it plays differently to the Bach original... easier down low, but with a different sound.
The B1 1/2 was based on something else..... not my project.
Chris Stearn.
ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

Hey folks

I can now say that the Yeo is perhaps a sensible progression from the Bach. I used the Yeo alternately at a few rehearsals this week and it's very good - but not if you don't have the lungs for it! Hopefully I'll be at a stage to use it properly in a year or more - but sorry for the description I've given in previous threads! But my advice would be to "work it in" over quite a while...

Expanding from that, doing long note and flow exercises with it could be useful for any player. I've printed out the James Whitacker warm up (for trombones in general but excellent for bass trombone especially for alternate positions) and I plan on doing some long note stuff with it from time to time.

I'm looking to sell the Yeo/give it a away though. If someone in the Glasgow area can find a use for it I'm happy to give it to them as long as you come and get it! I'll get another one when I'm not bogged down with concerts and can concentrate on solo stuff.

CONCLUSION...the Bach is good for any beginner on the bass trombone (two trigger). A good progression or practise mouthpiece is the Yeo because of the breath control required. A good clean sound from the Yeo - I used it for tuba parts in a concert band and it was brilliant.

Cheers all for convincing me to give the Yeo another try and if you're near enough and fancy having one - it's yours.

Ali
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

The Yeo is good of course Ali, for some. All mouthpiece have some + and - depending on who is playing it, with which horn and what playing situation. All of them need practice to control no matter of size. So the Bach is not really a beginner mouthpiece because it need some serious practice time to get the most out of it.  The Yeo is bigger but not always a progression from the Bach 1 1/2g.
Quote from: ali.syme on Nov 06, 2008, 01:16PM- but sorry for the description I've given in previous threads! But my advice would be to "work it in" over quite a while...

Don't be sorry, Ali and work with your Bach. You can blow tuba parts with it if you "work it in" over quite a while...

Cheers
Leif


ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

Quote from: savio on Nov 06, 2008, 01:43PMThe Yeo is good of course Ali, for some. All mouthpiece have some + and - depending on who is playing it, with which horn and what playing situation. All of them need practice to control no matter of size. So the Bach is not really a beginner mouthpiece because it need some serious practice time to get the most out of it.  The Yeo is bigger but not always a progression from the Bach 1 1/2g.
Don't be sorry, Ali and work with your Bach. You can blow tuba parts with it if you "work it in" over quite a while...

Cheers
Leif



I think the point being, it was easy to achieve clean tuba parts with the Yeo despite not using it and "working" with it Image

Ciao

Ali
ttf_ilanbone
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ilanbone »

For whatever it's worth, I played the Yeo full time for over a year and liked it a lot.  I found the high register to be very clear and easy and I had no trouble getting around on it.  It served me well in many auditions and competitions, and there is no doubt in my mind that the Yeo is a quality mouthpiece of the highest caliber.

Now, I’m not saying we should all switch to a Yeo, or anything else for that matter, but IMHO we should always strive to keep an open mind.

ilanbone


ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

I went down to Tacoma, Washington and met with Ivan Giddings to try out his bass trombone pieces. Along the way he had me try out the Mark 1 and everyone in the room thought I sounded very good on it. However, while playing some Bordogni Etudes, that cramped, inflexible feeling came back again. I think if I were to rework my approach to air and how I use it, I could make the Mark 1 work. I ended up with the Harwood. My high range sounded better than the Mark 1 and Projection was better than on my current piece, the P-35 Hauser.
ttf_anonymous
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_anonymous »

Quote from: GetzenBassPlayer on Nov 02, 2008, 08:59AMRandy Hawes was a guest Moderator for awhile many moons ago. He talked about how he came to land an orchestral job, his life on the road in one the ghost big bands and his recording of Mellowdrama. I think he said he was playing a 60 or 60 sized DE mouthpiece for the recording. His tale of focus and perseverance was very motivational to me.

I not sure what he plays now, I took lessons with him from about 1987-199?  He played a Bach 1 1/2 when I first started with him, he then moved to a 1 1/4 and then to a 1G. 
Scot 
ttf_BassBoneFL
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_BassBoneFL »

Quote from: scot hagerman on Nov 11, 2008, 06:38PMI not sure what he plays now, I took lessons with him from about 1987-199?  He played a Bach 1 1/2 when I first started with him, he then moved to a 1 1/4 and then to a 1G. 
Scot 

I think he did the CD on a 1G but last I know of he's on a Hammond 21BL.
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: GetzenBassPlayer on Nov 11, 2008, 05:33PMI went down to Tacoma, Washington and met with Ivan Giddings to try out his bass trombone pieces. Along the way he had me try out the Mark 1 and everyone in the room thought I sounded very good on it. However, while playing some Bordogni Etudes, that cramped, inflexible feeling came back again. I think if I were to rework my approach to air and how I use it, I could make the Mark 1 work. I ended up with the Harwood. My high range sounded better than the Mark 1 and Projection was better than on my current piece, the P-35 Hauser.


Funny how you went from his smallest to his biggest mouthpiece.... nothing in between float the boat ??
Chris Stearn
ttf_Gabe Langfur
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Gabe Langfur »

Quote from: blast on Nov 12, 2008, 03:08PM
Funny how you went from his smallest to his biggest mouthpiece.... nothing in between float the boat ??
Chris Stearn

Chris, you obviously haven't seen the Nor'Easter. It's ENORMOUS! And it looks weird...the cup starts out fairly straight down and then makes an abrupt turn to a V shape. But it works pretty well for such a big piece.
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: Gabe Langfur on Nov 12, 2008, 03:16PMChris, you obviously haven't seen the Nor'Easter. It's ENORMOUS! And it looks weird...the cup starts out fairly straight down and then makes an abrupt turn to a V shape. But it works pretty well for such a big piece.


No, I haven't seen that Gabe.... I've seen a Harwood.... and I didn't think things could get much bigger  Image. I have a Chinook that seems to sound good and play easy.... at least for a while.... testing a Mark 1 at the moment.... I was too hasty when I judged it harshly a while back.... It's a good mouthpiece, but very different to anything I've come across in the past. Ivan Giddings knows a thing or two about mouthpieces.... so I'd better take my time trying his stuff.....

Chris Stearn
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: blast on Nov 12, 2008, 03:08PM
Funny how you went from his smallest to his biggest mouthpiece.... nothing in between float the boat ??
Chris Stearn

I tried all his pieces except the Noreaster. The Harwood is very similar to the Hauser that I play on but with a more compact sound and possibly more efficient.
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: blast on Nov 12, 2008, 03:39PM
Ivan Giddings knows a thing or two about mouthpieces.... so I'd better take my time trying his stuff.....

Chris Stearn

He is a former band director. Started taking classes in industrial arts to fulfill his professional development requirements in this state. He made a mouthpiece for a student who was having metal allergies.
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Giddings has, without doubt, made mouthpieces that are more efficient to play, both in terms of projection and ease of use at the extremes of register.... what I am still not sure of is the sound that they tend to produce... but I will have to see how I adjust over time. The metal is only one element.... the designs themselves are very interesting.
Chris Stearn
ttf_svenlarsson
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_svenlarsson »

I have been using the Chinock for a couple of weeks now, in big band, jazz sextet, brass quintet and symphony orchestra.
I really like it. It is big. I am going to try the Karif. I am allergic to some metals, I am definitely going to stay with ss. (And buy new mpc:s to tuba medium and large tenors.)
The stainless is like a blessing!
Apart from the metal I really like the Chinock design. But it is big! Image

ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Isn't there silver plating on these mouthpieces? Is it just raw steel? 
ttf_Burgerbob
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Burgerbob »

If you read past the marketing stuff, this will explain it-
http://www.gwmouthpieces.com/naked.html

There isn't any coating or extra anything on stainless or titanium pieces.
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Quote from: GetzenBassPlayer on Nov 11, 2008, 05:33PMI went down to Tacoma, Washington and met with Ivan Giddings to try out his bass trombone pieces. Along the way he had me try out the Mark 1 and everyone in the room thought I sounded very good on it.

Thats almost the same way I did. I recorded a 1 1/2g just for fun and got a surprise when it sounded better than my bigger mouthpiece.

Chris, are you changing?   It seems to me that you and Svenne have tried many more than me, hehe. Stainless Steel sounds a bit cold to me. I did buy a Warburton in the sale section here. I was just a little curious about it. Got it today and well, not bad.....wider rim from what I'm used to but very comfortable. Nice sound.

Leif
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

I have no intention of changing my basic position on the mouthpiece front. My present problem is that the very fine Holton 169 that recently came my way seems to not like the Mt Vernon Bach I have been using.... so I am casting around looking at other takes on the 1 1/2G theme. Several mouthpieces match the Holton well, but I need to see which one suits my side of things. It is a fundamental that the mouthpiece and trombone should work well together, as there is no way that brass, or stainless steel for that matter, will change with use, but the lips and the brain are flexible and can adjust.
Chris Stearn
ttf_boneagain
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_boneagain »

Quote from: blast on Nov 15, 2008, 06:11AMI have no intention of changing my basic position on the mouthpiece front. My present problem is that the very fine Holton 169 that recently came my way seems to not like the Mt Vernon Bach I have been using.... so I am casting around looking at other takes on the 1 1/2G theme. Several mouthpieces match the Holton well, but I need to see which one suits my side of things. It is a fundamental that the mouthpiece and trombone should work well together, as there is no way that brass, or stainless steel for that matter, will change with use, but the lips and the brain are flexible and can adjust.
Chris Stearn

"...Holton 169...does not like..." is quite a tease, Chris!  I've seen you provide very coloUrful, illuminating descriptions before.  Are the specifics of "...does not like..." too elusive for words, or a dark secret? Image

The search for an MP for my King was quite an eye opener.  I was actually shocked at how much better I could negotiate Ab->F->Db->Pedal F and back on the Rath right out of the box.  I was expecting really noticeable differences only after a couple weeks of working in on each candidate.  I still did the working in, and found certain strengths on each candidate that, on different horns or with different sonic/ensemble ojbectives, would have sold me on each.

I have this image of you having most of the 1 1/2G variants we collectively own in your vault. This means that you already have experience with them.  But if you share some of that coloUrful description might we have some different perspectives that could be useful in zeroing in on a good mate for the Holton?  It would be nice for us to have a chance to contribute something to YOU for once!

Maybe we can have a new thread: Who can STAY in his right mind picking from amongst all the 1 1/2G variants? Image
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: savio on Nov 15, 2008, 04:40AMThats almost the same way I did. I recorded a 1 1/2g just for fun and got a surprise when it sounded better than my bigger mouthpiece.


Leif

I didn't sound better on the Mark 1, just different. It gave me more of a commercial sound than the other pieces. I feel I can sound good on any quality instrument or mouthpiece. The big question for me is, how much effort/change will it take. I spent some time on DE pieces, and while I could get a good sound playing them, it took a lot of work to get the sound I wanted. I did not mesh well with the design. 1.5g mouthpieces just don't mesh well with me either. I am working much less to get the sound I want when I play on 60ish sized pieces. Ivan said That when he and Don Harwood talked, Don wanted a piece that he didn't have to spend so much time on to sound good. Ivan said Don would do an hour of long tones a day to get the sound he wanted out of his Houser. I chuckled, because I spend about an hour a day playing long tones and almost that doing lip slurs and such. I am an amateur and only have one rehearsal a week, I do not have the pressure of rehearsals and concerts every week. That makes a huge difference in my piece choice because I have the time to do all the maintenance to make a large piece work. Someday, I might get tired of practicing 20 hours a week and I will more than likely look for a different mouthpiece that reflects my needs at that point better. Lewis Van Haney said to me back in 1982 that to make a Bach 1g work takes 5 practice hours a day. He also said it was a good piece if one was willing to do that. After a number of years playing larger pieces, I tend to agree with him.
ttf_Birdy
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_Birdy »

Quote from: GetzenBassPlayer on Nov 15, 2008, 09:27AMI didn't sound better on the Mark 1, just different. It gave me more of a commercial sound than the other pieces. I feel I can sound good on any quality instrument or mouthpiece. The big question for me is, how much effort/change will it take. I spent some time on DE pieces, and while I could get a good sound playing them, it took a lot of work to get the sound I wanted. I did not mesh well with the design. 1.5g mouthpieces just don't mesh well with me either. I am working much less to get the sound I want when I play on 60ish sized pieces. Ivan said That when he and Don Harwood talked, Don wanted a piece that he didn't have to spend so much time on to sound good. Ivan said Don would do an hour of long tones a day to get the sound he wanted out of his Houser. I chuckled, because I spend about an hour a day playing long tones and almost that doing lip slurs and such. I am an amateur and only have one rehearsal a week, I do not have the pressure of rehearsals and concerts every week. That makes a huge difference in my piece choice because I have the time to do all the maintenance to make a large piece work. Someday, I might get tired of practicing 20 hours a week and I will more than likely look for a different mouthpiece that reflects my needs at that point better. Lewis Van Haney said to me back in 1982 that to make a Bach 1g work takes 5 practice hours a day. He also said it was a good piece if one was willing to do that. After a number of years playing larger pieces, I tend to agree with him.

I've got to hand it to you, I could never do an hour's worth of long tones a day to play once a week. It'd bore me rigid. I can play to a reasonably high standard without even playing every day. One of the reasons I moved off the big equipment was to allow this to happen. I figured out that all the extra effort needed for the bathtubs just wasn't worth it time wise.
ttf_blast
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_blast »

Quote from: boneagain on Nov 15, 2008, 06:47AM"...Holton 169...does not like..." is quite a tease, Chris!  I've seen you provide very coloUrful, illuminating descriptions before.  Are the specifics of "...does not like..." too elusive for words, or a dark secret? Image

The search for an MP for my King was quite an eye opener.  I was actually shocked at how much better I could negotiate Ab->F->Db->Pedal F and back on the Rath right out of the box.  I was expecting really noticeable differences only after a couple weeks of working in on each candidate.  I still did the working in, and found certain strengths on each candidate that, on different horns or with different sonic/ensemble ojbectives, would have sold me on each.

I have this image of you having most of the 1 1/2G variants we collectively own in your vault. This means that you already have experience with them.  But if you share some of that coloUrful description might we have some different perspectives that could be useful in zeroing in on a good mate for the Holton?  It would be nice for us to have a chance to contribute something to YOU for once!
Thanks for the concern  Image I'm getting this one under control.... Holtons are possibly the worst trombones to draw conclusions about as no two are the same.... each of my Holtons works best with different mouthpieces... and this new horn let me know that it was not happy with the Bach mouthpiece.... ppp long notes, above the bass clef on a recording session.... they felt less than secure, which is not usual and it hit me that although I really liked the new horn, it had not yet felt really safe.... a quick tour of the mouthpiece box confirmed that the horn worked better with several other mouthpieces, so I had to make a decision as to which I should try..... you must never fall into the trap of swapping around several mouthpieces for a few weeks... that way lies confusion... so I am giving the G&W an extended trial.... I suspect there will be much to report... but not yet. If I had to recommend one make that is most likely to work with Holton, it would probably be Wick.... they seem to bond well... but I have not found the right Wick rim yet..... so G&W gets the trial.
Chris Stearn


<<Edit- One of these days, Chris will figure out how to quote somebody without buggering it up. Cuts him some slack, as it's in the wee hours there...>>



ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: Birdy on Nov 15, 2008, 04:07PMI've got to hand it to you, I could never do an hour's worth of long tones a day to play once a week. It'd bore me rigid. I can play to a reasonably high standard without even playing every day. One of the reasons I moved off the big equipment was to allow this to happen. I figured out that all the extra effort needed for the bathtubs just wasn't worth it time wise.

You are assumpting that the only playing I do is in a large ensemble. I take a 90 minute lesson every week which takes a lot of preparation. My interest is the solo bass trombone literature. I do recitals and solo performances frequently. My next recital I am going to do unaccompanied music in the first half and the Halsey Stevens, the Six Studies in English Folk Song and either a piece by Daniel Schnyder or Chris Brubeck I plan on calling it Rie (My accompanists first name) Myself and I. I know Image, but these are the kind of gimmicks that get people interested in coming to recitals. If you call it a trombone recital, no one will show Image

I never get bored doing long tones, there is so much to learn from them. The long tone exercises in Vernon's book emphasize sound and constancy. Paul Falise has great ones for maching the sound on the different sides of the horn. The Teele exercise I have modified to use to focus on sound production and air control in the extreme lower register. Every day I hear something I can improve on while doing long tones. There are no boring notes, just boring players. Image

I like practicing everyday. It doesn't seem like work to me. I like to focus on certain aspects of playing separately and really listen to what is going on. My lesson is the high lite of my week. I look at my lessons as a performance every week. As you can see I have more then on reason to do long tones everyday.
ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

You lot seem like an intelligent group of people [holds for laugh] - can you help me?!

I have concerts, rehearsals and auditions coming up not to mention a long practise regime. My trombone is failing me - it rattles in my hear, the trigger screw is missing so it falls off mid-note, there are dents galore and it's in need of a fix. It'd be an insult to myself to walk in to an audition with something held together with elastic bands and paperclips (as mine currently is).

If you're in the Glasgow/Central Belt area, who else other than Band Supplies and Biggars can repair and/or loan an instrument to you? I've tried both, but no bassbones in stock! Wind Section in Edinburgh is my next option but that's a long way to go.

Methinks I'll start a thread about peoples "oh crud I have no instrument and I'm on in 5 minutes" stories...

Oh and whatever I get - my Bach 1 1/2G mouthpiece is staying with me ImageImage

Ali
ttf_savio
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_savio »

Go to a repair shop and ask if they can fix your trombone quick.  Some can if you explain your situation. Or go to a school band and ask if there are one you can borrow while your main trombone is in hospital.

Leif
ttf_ali.syme
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_ali.syme »

Quote from: savio on Nov 20, 2008, 01:40PMGo to a repair shop and ask if they can fix your trombone quick.  Some can if you explain your situation. Or go to a school band and ask if there are one you can borrow while your main trombone is in hospital.

Leif

A good idea - but it takes a while to get repairs done even with my puppy dog eyes...and school bands in Glasgow don't really use bass trombones...it's a puzzler!
ttf_RedHotMama
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_RedHotMama »

(Who in their right mind spends 38 pages talking about mouthpieces? Oooops, sorry....)
ttf_GetzenBassPlayer
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Who in their right mind plays a Bach 1 1/2G ??

Post by ttf_GetzenBassPlayer »

Quote from: RedHotMama on Nov 22, 2008, 02:44AM(Who in their right mind spends 38 pages talking about mouthpieces? Oooops, sorry....)

Or trombones in general  Image.
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