Change Bach 42 to Edwards T350: new sensations

[Bone24]

Hi. A few months ago, I switched from a Bach 42 Hagmann (yellow brass) to an Edwards T350 (TBCN slide and 321CF yellow brass bell). I’ve noticed a significant lack of slotting, which makes playing the Edwards difficult for me. I feel like I have a good sound, but it’s too open—lacking a solid center—and I have to hunt for the notes, especially in the low-mid register.
I know this is a common issue when switching from Bach to Edwards. I’d like to ask for some advice on how to achieve better slotting:
1- Mouthpieces: I struggle the most with the Greg Black 5G Medium. The Stork Custom 4 gives me much better slotting, but it feels too heavy for long sessions. The Schilke 51 is better than the Greg Black, but the sound quality is very poor. Is there something in the 5G size range that would provide better slotting? Maybe a Laskey 51MD?
2- Playing approach: I think I’m trying too hard to replicate the feel of the Bach 42 on the Edwards, which isn't possible. I’d appreciate any tips or techniques for improving slotting on the Edwards without forcing the issue or fighting the instrument—finding a natural way to achieve more tonal center on this beautiful horn. Thanks a lot for your help.

[NotSkilledHere]

may be worth exploring leadpipe options too.

[Danitrb]

Hi, may I ask a question? Why not just keep playing Bach if you have this issues with sound and intonation with new horn?

[WGWTR180]

Do you HAVE to play the Edwards? Nothing wrong with the Bach. And yes your thoughts don't betray you-you will not get an Edwards to blow like a Bach.

[Bone24]

Thanks for your comments. I no longer have my Bach 42. I really like the sound of the Edwards; I was just looking for a way to improve the slotting, since I really like the rest of the trombone. I’m very close to finding my ideal sound with the Edwards—I just need a little more tonal center, and I’ll get there. All advice will be welcome. Thanks!

[tkelley216]

It sounds like a leak or misalignment to me, I'd have a tech look it over first.

After that, the lead pipe makes a big difference. I assume you have all 3 leadpipes that come standard with the horn?

The tuning slide material can actually make a pretty big impact on sound and response as well. If you have a red or rose brass tuning slide, maybe find and try a yellow slide.

[Kevbach33]

Axial flow valves blow very open; the sensation is a little jarring for those coming from other valves. They also need more maintenance (oil daily) than others (how often did you oil your Hagmann valve when you owned the Bach?). I agree with the advice to have it looked at, and will add to find someone experienced with these valves.

If you have the 3 leadpipes, find and use the #1 (1 groove). This is the most centered standard pipe and can make a huge difference for Bach players.

On the mouthpiece side, the stock Greg Black 5G is going to be a pretty open piece; he does make one with a tighter throat and backbore (.277"/#1, I believe). That, or another option, could help (The rough Laskey equivalent is the 57MD, BTW). OR: once the horn is sorted, have a lesson with Doug Elliott (he's on this very forum and makes his own line of 3-piece mouthpiece systems).

Good luck! And let the Edwards be an Edwards, not something it isn't.

[Bone24]

Okay! The trombone is in perfect condition and is brand new—it’s barely three months old. I maintain that it sounds great; it’s just my own internal impression that it lacks a bit of "center," though the sound is good from the outside. I’m starting to experiment with leadpipes (I was using the T2, but noticed some improvement in that regard when I tried the T1). I’ve read that Edwards instruments offer a wide range of tonal characteristics; while the sound tends to be open overall, there is an interesting palette of tone colors that I’m gradually discovering. It’s a challenging but rewarding process, and I think it’s helping me improve as a trombonist—learning to focus the sound more or less depending on the needs of the moment. Thanks so much for your input; it’s incredibly helpful and encouraging for me.

[CalgaryTbone]

That's the exact horn that I played for many years - I'm on the T396AR now.

It would be worthwhile to make sure that your Thayer valve is not leaking. They are great valves, but they do need to be serviced from time to time, and when they leak, it happens very gradually. If it's lost the proper compression by too much, it can affect the feeling of center on the horn.

Jim Scott

[Tbarh]

The Edwards have bigger diameter tuning slide than the Bach ( also than a Conn).. This can absolutely account for the loss of slotting /too open feeling...You may compensate Your blow after a while or You could adjust the mouthpiece ,for instance with a tighter throat/backbore..

[hyperbolica]

Just to take a different tack, because I don't have anything to add on the hardware side of things, you might be able to practice this problem into submission. It might be your ear or your chops that need recalibration to get what you expect out of this horn. A great horn and great sound is worth making some sacrifices. I would try to build a regimen of lip slur exercises to better control the relationship between your chops, your ears and the partials. If you practice enough, the Edwards sound may become your new standard. There are objective measures like intonation, speed at which you can play certain exercises, but the feel is so subjective and a lot of other people enjoy that model. I'd give arpeggios, Marsteller or Remington style a go and see if they help you get where you want to go.