Medium bore step up horn, Yamaha, Rath, or…?

[johntarr]

Hello,

I have a student who is progressing nicely and his parents want to buy him a trombone.

I am thinking that a medium bore with f attachment would serve him well.

At first, I suggested the Yamaha 446G and then thought of the Rath 003, which is a bit more expensive but has the option of having a large shank lead pipe.

Have any of you played both of these instruments and have thoughts on how they compare?

Thanks for any suggestions,

John

[SwissTbone]

The Rath R300 is a great option and one of the better medium bores with F out there. If budget is an issue the Y-fort medium bore could also be a very good option.

[MahlerMusic]

I’m probably not experienced enough with students to give a real recommendation, but I did want to add a couple of questions to the mix. What kind of music is the student focusing on? And is buying used an option?
Medium-bore horns don’t always move quickly on the used market, and there’s a good chance the student will outgrow and resell this horn in a few years.
I loved my Yamaha medium bore when I was growing up, but for me it was never really a keeper long-term — even if I’d wanted to stay on 3rd in a jazz band.

[hyperbolica]

Hello,

I have a student who is progressing nicely and his parents want to buy him a trombone.

I am thinking that a medium bore with f attachment would serve him well.

At first, I suggested the Yamaha 446G and then thought of the Rath 003, which is a bit more expensive but has the option of having a large shank lead pipe.

Have any of you played both of these instruments and have thoughts on how they compare?

Thanks for any suggestions,

John

I think you should examine why you think an F attachment is an "upgrade". It may not be. It's a different thing, not necessarily better. If the student is into concert band or orchestra, it might be useful. But if they are more of a jazzer, it might be an encumbrance.

Of the horns you mentioned, the Rath is probably the best choice. Maybe a King 607/8 would be a decent option as well. The Kings are kind of heavy, though.

You're in EU? If he's more of a jazzer, the Rath R100 might be a good thing, and there are a whole list of Rath Custom horns that are straight small bore bones (R1, R10, R12, R2). Courtois 402 is excellent.

[Finetales]

The Rath R300 is very good. The Y-Fort 260GL is also very good, and way cheaper. Either one would be a great horn, even after getting a nice small and large bore later.

[johntarr]

Thank you for your suggestions and recommendations, I will also include the Rath in my recommendations, if it fits in with their budget.

All the best,

John

[Nomsis]

I recently bought a used K&H 134GF and it is a really great horn which was very cheap. So maybe if you are lucky you can find one as well, because I will keep mine might be worth to look out for one, at least here in Germany they can be found quite frequently.
If you want to buy new I think the K&H 134 is currently not offered with f attachment any more but the newer model 527 is probably very good as well and can be found sometimes used as well. Might be a little over your budget though if you buy new.

[harrisonreed]

I think you should examine why you think an F attachment is an "upgrade". It may not be. It's a different thing, not necessarily better. If the student is into concert band or orchestra, it might be useful. But if they are more of a jazzer, it might be an encumbrance.

Whoa whoa whoa. *Everyone* knows that as you progress and get better at the trombone, the slide becomes less and less useful and you need a bigger horn to go along with your progress.

The natural progression is (always selling the previous horn):

1. Bundy straight trombone
2. Bach 36B
3. Conn 88H / Bach 42b
4. Edwards / Shires version of the same horn
5. Yamaha bass trombone
6. Edwards / Shires version of some niche artist model bass trombone.
7. Contrabass trombone
8. Cimbasso

This is why we see so few cimbasso players -- they are the absolute cream of the crop! Frank Rosolino was middling at best, hence the lack of an F attachment.

(This is a joke. Humor!)

[dukesboneman]

My suggestion would be to go for Lt36B or one of Yamaha .525 F`s
It`s the best all around horn size . To many Band directors push students into .547 horns.
I`ve never , in all my years of teaching understood why everyone thinks that every kid NEEDS a Large bore horn.
If the student is serious about going into music as a profession , Yes, they need a Large Bore Horn.
But your "average" kid in the trombone section, needs nothing bigger than a .525.
45 years of teaching and that`s my final answer

[SwissTbone]

Or find a good old Bach 36b.

[Briande]

Or an old King 3B+. Love mine. Has served me well for 40+ years.

[Briande]

Or an old King 3B+. Love mine. Has served me well for 40+ years.

[johntarr]

My suggestion would be to go for Lt36B or one of Yamaha .525 F`s
It`s the best all around horn size . To many Band directors push students into .547 horns.
I`ve never , in all my years of teaching understood why everyone thinks that every kid NEEDS a Large bore horn.
If the student is serious about going into music as a profession , Yes, they need a Large Bore Horn.
But your "average" kid in the trombone section, needs nothing bigger than a .525.
45 years of teaching and that`s my final answer

Yes, I agree. He’s not ready for a large bore, he plays different styles, and our wind ensemble plays music that would be made easier with an F-attachment. I have searched for used horns here in Sweden but find nothing and his parents seem fine with buying something new.

Thanks for all your input,

John

[RJMason]

I’d either get the Y-Fort and save up for a professional large bore in due time (keep the YFort for freelancing) or go for a Bach 36B(O) variant now and eventually trade it in towards a pro large horn. Yamaha and Rath are great but more expensive than Y Fort with a much weaker resale value than a Bach 36.

[johntarr]

I’d either get the Y-Fort and save up for a professional large bore in due time (keep the YFort for freelancing) or go for a Bach 36B(O) variant now and eventually trade it in towards a pro large horn. Yamaha and Rath are great but more expensive than Y Fort with a much weaker resale value than a Bach 36.

I’ve thought of the Y-Fort, but haven’t found a dealer in Europe that has them in stock. Finding a used 36B is also difficult.

[SwissTbone]

I’d either get the Y-Fort and save up for a professional large bore in due time (keep the YFort for freelancing) or go for a Bach 36B(O) variant now and eventually trade it in towards a pro large horn. Yamaha and Rath are great but more expensive than Y Fort with a much weaker resale value than a Bach 36.

I’ve thought of the Y-Fort, but haven’t found a dealer in Europe that has them in stock. Finding a used 36B is also difficult.

I could get one within a week or two.

[RJMason]

I’ve thought of the Y-Fort, but haven’t found a dealer in Europe that has them in stock. Finding a used 36B is also difficult.

I could get one within a week or two.

Ooooo! I will say the YFort .525 was one of my favorite horns at NAMM 2024. I thought it played better than the Conn Selmer and Shires stuff while also more vibrant than the Yamaha 600 series. The R300 was also really quite good. That year I would rank them 1.) y fort 2.) Rath 3.) Yamaha/ and I am a Yamaha Artist!

[stewbones43]

I have sent you a Private Message.

Cheers

Stewbones43