M&W custom valve for Shires trombone?

[solidshi8]

I'm currently playing a Shires Alessi. I really like its quick response and rich tonal colors, especially when playing solos — it feels more effortless and nimble than my previous Edwards T-396. However, when performing orchestral works in a large concert hall, I've noticed that its sound lacks some core, projection, and stability, particularly in a side-by-side comparison with the Edwards T-396. I've tried the 2SS, 2.5SS, 2.5L, 2.5, 2, and 2L leadpipes, as well as the TW47 and TB47 slides, but they all still feel somewhat lacking. I'm now considering going to MW to customize a rotary valve to pair with my Shires Alessi. Would this solve my problem? (I'm using Greg black Newyork 5M, 3M on this horn to play in the orchestra. It helps to center the note a little bit)

[Doug Elliott]

I don’t really know but I suspect it’s the unsoldered bell. Leadpipes and valves and slides won’t change the characteristics of the unsoldered bell rim.

[mikerspencer]

You could try a Calder Pips tone halo (assuming your bell isn't cut). It's a cheap option to try.

[solidshi8]

You could try a Calder Pips tone halo (assuming your bell isn't cut). It's a cheap option to try.

I already tried it. Though it helps to focus a little bit, it kills too much overtones....

[solidshi8]

I don’t really know but I suspect it’s the unsoldered bell. Leadpipes and valves and slides won’t change the characteristics of the unsoldered bell rim.

Yes, it is an unsoldered bell. I actually prefer the unsoldered bell over the soldered bell.

[harrisonreed]

Just use the Edwards you still have. I'm not sure if it is related, but the Edwards was developed to play in a relatively poor accoustic (old Geffen Hall), and the Shires was released right when new plans and work began on the Geffen Hall upgrade. I don't know if maybe they put in one of those fake reverb systems in the interim when the Shires was quietly being developed, or what, but those timelines all "align".

[mikerspencer]

You could try a Calder Pips tone halo (assuming your bell isn't cut). It's a cheap option to try.

I already tried it. Though it helps to focus a little bit, it kills too much overtones....

It does that! I've got one to tame my king DG for classical stuff. I tried it on tenor once and hated it...

Good luck in your search.

[GabrielRice]

Matthew can certainly make a valve for your Shires, but that seems like an awfully expensive experiment.

[Kbiggs]

Back in the day, we used to experiment with cheap things that didn’t require permanent modifications. Most of these end up adding “core” and stability to the sound at the expense of flexibility and the ability to color the sound.

Buy a brass bushing and place it underneath the valve cap. Just make sure the bushing’s hole is large enough to fit over the spindle, and make sure it’s brass and not some other composite. Some larger “brass” bushings contain steel and can rust.

Try some duct tape around the throat of the bell. It doesn’t have to be duct tape, though. When it was en vogue to experiment with these sorts of things, people tried masking tape, electrical tape, even aluminum furnace duct tape. Just beware that if you decide to remove it, you might mess up the lacquer.

You could try one of the mouthpiece stabilizer things. They fit on the mouthpiece shank. They add A LOT of core to the sound.

Try a Sauer Brace. They install at the end of the handslide, and fit between the ferrules just above the crook.

You could also try getting used to the different sound and feel of the Shires, Alessi horn in a section setting. Way back in the day, before my time, many orchestral players used Conn trombones which, at the time, had unsoldered beads. Somehow, people heard themselves and managed to balance out their sections.

[Elow]

Buy this https://brassark.com/sale_horns/shires- ... ankenbone/

[harrisonreed]

Screenshot_20191219-171055.png

If you put down a thin paper towel under the electrical tape, it won't damage the lacquer. This trick works, most people are just too embarrassed to do it or try it.

I don't even get the aversion -- if you make it removable, now you have two different trombones, sort of.

[hyperbolica]

At one point I put an elastic wrist wrap on the bell of my 88h to test it. It works. I wouldn't say it improves the 88h, but it did remove the sympathetic vibration at F#. All you need is a little extra mass attached to the bell.

[hornbuilder]

I'm going to say that what you're suggesting is not going to give you what you want.
A different valve section is not going to change the bell response/sound/projection characteristics. A slightly heavier bell would do what you're after.

[tbonesullivan]

I'm currently playing a Shires Alessi. I really like its quick response and rich tonal colors, especially when playing solos — it feels more effortless and nimble than my previous Edwards T-396. However, when performing orchestral works in a large concert hall, I've noticed that its sound lacks some core, projection, and stability, particularly in a side-by-side comparison with the Edwards T-396.

Well... it's a different horn. What you are describing is a "design tradeoff", probably to do with weight, and I don't think you will be able to change it with anything minor, even something like changing out a valve. If you change it to give it more core, projection, and stability, you are going to lose that quick response and nimbleness.