Very first lesson to my own kid

[patrickosmith]

I've been away from this forum for a long time. I'm glad to see it is still here!

I'm asking for your advice on teaching my own 10-year-old daughter to play trombone this summer. I'd love to hear:

• any advice at all

• how exactly to describe/instruct the embouchure

A bit of background:

• She's been playing piano for years and she knows about clefs, keys and time signatures.

• Instrument is a Yamaha Compact Trombone, which I picked up a few years ago:
  https://usa.yamaha.com/products/musical ... index.html

• I have an extensive library of sheet music for intermediate to advanced levels but not much for a first time beginner. I do have an the Arban's book (green cover). And I have a few beginner trumpet books in Bb treble clef.

I hope I have the patience and discipline to teach well. I am a bit concerned about teaching her myself. My own teacher, the great late Frank Crisafulli, had said in an interview ... "I don't recommend studying with your father. It is a very difficult thing for a father to teach his son. My father was quite impatient with me. I think, now that I recall that period, that he rather expected that I should be able to do everything because I was his son."

Thanks in advance!

[timothy42b]

I never considered teaching my own children anything.

The closest I came was when one of them was taking piano lessons, and I shared a website on effective practice. She read it carefully and said something like, "uh, yeah, but that's not me."

Everybody's different. Your teaching style will differ from mine, your child's learning style will differ from mine, and some parents make this work. But proceed cautiously; here lie minefields.

Remember with a child that age you're a cheerleader, not a coach. They need fun. There's time for discipline later. The best way to teach that is probably just demonstrate it.

[elmsandr]

lol, my kid won’t practice of do lessons with me. I mean, he will, but it doesn’t work. He does infinitely better with a different teacher. Same experience with a friend in town (who happens to be a middle school band director). None of our kids will hear the words when we say them.

When my son eventually changed from trombone to tuba; I got him a private teacher (also a friend of ours). Suddenly he will do the exact same things and come to me excitedly about them. E.g. lip slurs… came running into the room thinking that they were amazing and so helpful. I didn’t even rub it in that the exercises he was now happily running through were the same ones I wrote out by hand for him a few months prior.

So, all that to say, good luck to you.
Andy

[officermayo]

As my daughter (now 44 yrs old with a performance degree) was home schooled in elementary grades, I was tasked with teaching music. She was already playing piano and cornet by middle school. To learn trombone (slide and valve) I used the Rubank Intermediate method book.

Not to discredit your former teacher, but my first teacher was my father who's mentioned in my signature.

[robcat2075]

Tongue with "tah" not with "tu".

Several books say "tu" but those books are wrong.

"Tah" will be good for beginner's middle-range trombone notes

[Savio]

It's not easy to teach our own children. So I did some mistakes. I have a daughter 14 years old. Also a daughter 26 now but she only did hide all my mouthpieces I figured out not to say much but just play together. And only stuff I know she can play. She has absolute pitch and love all creative arts like painting and making things with hands. Right now she is mostly into painting and playing piano. Be patient and just make it fun. And give lot of compliments.

[JTeagarden]

I would also recommend not teaching your own child

[Mamaposaune]

My husband and I both play trombone, but when my older son started in 4th grade we quickly found that it was not going to work for either of us to teach him. When our younger son also wanted to play, we did not even make the attempt. Fortunately their school band director was a fellow trombone major who we both knew in school, he was very patient, got them off to a good start, and gave us updates without the kids knowing.
That being said, I have musician friends who have had success teaching their own kids. Everyone is different.

[Crazy4Tbone86]

Part of your question is approaching this from parent/child perspective……..”Should I teach my child?” The answer to that depends on the personality of the child and the dynamic of the parent/child relationship. You should be able to make a judgement call on that based on past student/teacher experiences that you have had with your child.

The thing that concerns me are the other parts of your question: the inquiries about how to teach the correct embouchure and what music books to use. Usually when I hear questions like that, I wonder……is this person qualified to teach the instrument? Qualified teachers should know the answers to these questions because: 1. They have experienced taking lessons in an effective environment in their past, and/or 2. They have extensive training in the methods and materials of teaching that particular instrument.

I don’t want to burst anyone’s bubble, but I have seen far too many people teach instrument lessons who should have delegated the job to someone with more qualifications and expertise. I teach an assortment of brass instruments, but only the instruments that I can play professionally, fluently and deeply understand the music (method books, solo literature and ensemble music) very weIl. I can also play some woodwind instruments, but I am certainly not qualified to TEACH PRIVATE LESSONS on those instruments because I do not have the knowledge and depth of understanding of those instruments and music/methods that are associated with them.

I never wish to discourage a person from learning the art/skill of teaching an instrument. As part of my training, I had to observe several private teachers work their craft as well as numerous music classroom teachers. It was a wonderful experience and it helped me develop my teaching methods and style. I have also had many brass players observe my private-lesson teaching as they were preparing to become private lesson teachers and eventually develop a studio.

[timothy42b]

Philosophy, somewhat off topic, this is what I think I've observed over the years.

Unless we've had specific training, our default approach is to supervise our employees and/or teach our students the way we would parent. (parent = verb)

And the way we would parent is mostly how we were parented.

Depending somewhat on how well we were parented, this kind of works, but it's far from optimal.

[BrassSection]

Grandson (Caleb) and his mom living with us. 5th grade it’s pick an instrument time. He knew he wanted to play brass, wasn’t sure which one. Sat down with him and discussed options. Demonstrated trumpet, trombone, euphonium, and tuba. Daughter more advanced than I am on French horn, she demoed that. Called 100% sure he wanted trumpet. Had a good cornet here, he wanted to play that. First week he came home from school with assignment from band director. I gave him basic instructions, demonstrating as we went. I’d play whatever was on the assignment, then he would play it. Caught on quick. One week later second lesson at school. Halfway thru first line director asked “Caleb, is somebody helping you?!” He said yeah, my pap plays trumpet. Mixed band in small school, grades 6 thru 12 all in one band. Caleb pretty much 1st trumpet throughout school. Also plays piano and bass guitar, only straying from trumpet was euphonium a time or two in an ensemble. I’d have to credit the student over the instructor.

[harrisonreed]

Even if you are the greatest brass pedagogue of all time, unless you are very strict with your children as the norm throughout the day, you won't be as effective of a teacher as someone that your child hasn't already established a relationship with. Unless your daughter is unusually interested in learning the skill of playing the trombone for some reason.

Teachers must either be an authority figure subject matter expert, or an inspirational / hero figure subject matter expert. And the learner needs to have an internal drive to learn the skill. The first kind of teacher is great for young children, the second kind is great for everyone, but you can't just *become* someone's inspirational hero of a subject they are interested in.

So it is possible to produce a Mozart, maybe, if you are Leopold Mozart, but what's the cost of that? If you don't go that far with it, then it's fine, but they will need a private teacher before too long anyways.

*Edit spelling error

[patrickosmith]

Wow! You guys have really delivered excellent advice. I most appreciate the critical comments thoughtfully presented by Harrison Reed, Brian Brinkley and many others. I will keep your advice and noted pitfalls top of mind.

I did successfully teach my daughter's three (3) older brothers a decade ago (trombone and trumpet) but I did not follow through with weekly private lessons as I now intend with my daughter. Her older brothers are now in college pursuing electrical and computer engineering to earn a living.

I will take this once in a lifetime chance to pass on the knowledge given to me. My goal is for my daughter to play trombone naturally and with ease at all times. Our first lesson begins after the July 4th Holiday. I plan to keep this fun.

For sheet music/method books I will begin with these:

• None (easy tunes by ear in different keys)

• None (Vader Theme in G minor, KPOP Demon Hunters)

• Standard of Excellence used by the local school system

• Studies in Legato by Reginald Fink

• This First Book of Practical Studies for Trumpet by Robert Getchell

• Ernest Clarke - Updated Method for Trombone with F-attachment
  https://a.co/d/0dqvurS8

[BrassSection]

In helping your own kids, I also helped son and daughter get their starts years ago, son on baritone and daughter on French horn. Basically made sure they were practicing, and playing along to help with new items being introduced. Also taught both kids and grandson instrument maintenance. Little required at home, larger school district with well trained band/music directors. Daughter went on to private instructors for horn and piano. Grandson different situation. Small school, single teacher for elementary through senior high band and chorus. Was a woodwind player. Showed in the band, comprised of grades 6 thru 12. Woodwind sections decent, all brass sections painful to listen to.

[JohnL]

Whatever else you do, work with her on breathing. It all starts with air, and having good breathing mechanics makes a lot of other things easier.

[patrickosmith]

Whatever else you do, work with her on breathing. It all starts with air, and having good breathing mechanics makes a lot of other things easier.

Yes of course! I remember this vividly from my very first lesson with Crisafulli back in the summer 1971. He taught me take a breath well before depletion. It is also explained pretty well in the "Song and Wind" book credited to Arnold Jacobs. It is all the more important for young children with smaller lung capacity. I often defied the band director's imperative to "play on without taking a breath." This still happens in adult community orchestras I play with. It is just completely wrong for any young developing brass player.