Another project complete: double valve tenor by Benn Hansson

[Burgerbob]

This one is the culmination of a bunch of little projects.

I got the Corp 42 bell from a donor horn with a trashed valve section- amazing slide, bell and tuning slide, but the valve section was shot. Check!

I got the stainless Thayer from a $200 Ebay project instrument where every slide was reversed (including the handslide).

I have two tuning slides, both Artisan pieces in gold brass and nickel (nickel pictured).

The slide is a dual bore LT .547/.562, notably something Bach never offered from the factory.

The dependent D valve is a Kanstul piece that I assumed was for bass when I bought it, but measured at .562- and of course Benn knew that the span was exactly the same as O.E. Thayer F attachment crooks!

Therefore, the whole thing all at once:







Sadly, I had surgery yesterday and I can't play it... but I can't wait.

[RJMason]

I’m a big fan of Benn’s design for this, awesome work. Get well soon, I’m stoked for you to play it!

[HawaiiTromboneGuy]

Holy smokes

[NotSkilledHere]

that's so cool!

[Jbklyn]

Beautiful work!

[Doug Elliott]

Very cool. That D valve is in a different time zone.

[octavposaune]

Hi all,

To be clear the only thing from that 200 parts trombone was the valve assembly, I built the wrap and bracing to fit artisan Bach setups, built the reversed artisan tuning slides from parts in a big project for Aidan several years ago.

The drop in D valve from Kanstul was missing a bunch of parts as it was literal leftovers on a wall at Sandhagens. He doesnt have anymore so.don't asl..

That Axial was a nearly new 1989 stainless thayer from OE Thayer that with it's bent tubing side port made the wrap so closely fit to the body of the horn that virtually nothing made today is like it. Also, using OE Thayer wrap parts made for the later wrap the total length was about 2 inches short so the tuning slide needed to be pulled out a lot, I eventually found this out again when finalizing this build during test playing.. It was very annoying having to find another piece of stainless allthread to correct the lever geometry where the slot in valve actually needed to be to play F in tune.

I have a setup for myself that is similar but uses 2 CR valves, one of which is the same drop in Kanstul setup, however the pictured setup plays better with tenor bells than mine which I use with a 45 flair... if I put a 42 flair on my double CR setup it isnt nearly as good as this setup. Kinda jealous of Aidan, thats a killer axial.

Anyways,

I cant wait to hear Aidan play it in a video in the future!

[Burgerbob]

Yes, I should have done a shot from above to show how skinny it is. I'll get a comparison with my slot in 185 tomorrow.

[harrisonreed]

I'm trying to "wrap" my head around how the F valve is tuned with that bar attached to the second valve.

[Posaunus]

This one is the culmination of a bunch of little projects.

Therefore, the whole thing all at once:

Sadly, I had surgery yesterday and I can't play it... but I can't wait.

Unfortunately I cannot view photos (I'm now in Spain - "Content is not available in your area.") but it would be fun to see.

Hope you recover quickly from your surgery quickly, Aidan, so we can see/hear you play it!

[hyperbolica]

Very interesting. I had a double valve tenor that was a prototype from Wessex probably a decade ago. Fun horn. Hope you have a good time with this.

[GabrielRice]

That's just crazy enough to work.

[Kbiggs]

Nice work Benn, as always.

Get well soon, Aidan. Post something when you’re up to it.

[Bassbone11]

Excited to see it in action! Wish you best on your recovery!

[Crazy4Tbone86]

How crazy is it that the drop-in valve was a .562 bore? That’s probably what made the project happen. I imagine that 99.9% of drop-in valve assemblies are bass bores (.590s bore).

[Burgerbob]

Slim!

[octavposaune]

How crazy is it that the drop-in valve was a .562 bore? That’s probably what made the project happen. I imagine that 99.9% of drop-in valve assemblies are bass bores (.590s bore).

Back in the 2000s and early teens Kanstul was doing innovative stuff, with a lot of push from Horn Guys Steve Ferguson. He had 1570 tenor trombones setu0 with tenor bore valve drop in D valve sets for a few horns sold through horn guys. Sandhagen bought them at the factory closure/liquidation and found out they werent bass bore units, and I bought one in 2023 for my modern 45 project, it turned out great. Aidan bought the other one and we ended up here, it was a lot or work building the levers etc... His valve set is great

Benn

[WGWTR180]

Cool project. The drop in valve instruments(there are very few) have evolved a bit over the years. As awkward as Aidan's 185 looks a good 185/169 set up works great. I've played a few with the second valve in D that look a bit more awkward than the one above but also play great! Matthew Walker did a very nice slot in valve instrument for Max Seigel that's also awesome. Curious as to where this will be used with all of the basses that you own(well maybe less basses now!).

[tbonesullivan]

Yes, I should have done a shot from above to show how skinny it is. I'll get a comparison with my slot in 185 tomorrow.

Whoa, you have a slot in 185 AND this? I thought you were pretty much an all independent player. I'm trying to think of what kind of use I would have for a tenor in Bb/F/D.

Anyway, that's one heck of an interesting horn. How does it play? Every time I see the "slot in" valves I just think of that really long linkage. I have the Yeo with the Slot in but it's only about an inch away from where it would normally be on a "stacked" setup.

[WGWTR180]

Yes, I should have done a shot from above to show how skinny it is. I'll get a comparison with my slot in 185 tomorrow.

Anyway, that's one heck of an interesting horn. How does it play? Every time I see the "slot in" valves I just think of that really long linkage. I have the Yeo with the Slot in but it's only about an inch away from where it would normally be on a "stacked" setup.

Long linkage but done correctly very short throw.

[Burgerbob]

So, why did I have this made?

Obviously a healthy part of it was just happening to buy that slot in valve. It has to get used somewhere, right?

I didn't mention it but the whole 2nd valve is removeable- the lever comes off and I have a normal F tuning slide, so it's not stuck this way.

I also watched a concert at LA Phil years ago, where Jim was playing principal on a new piece. I noticed that he was playing bass trombone, which didn't make a lot of sense since I could clearly hear him playing high Dbs. I asked him later and he said it was because the piece had one low B that he had to play, and therefore the only option was to play bass trombone. That's always irked me.

I've also played two chamber orchestra pieces on tenor trombone that had exposed, necessary low Cs, where a second valve would have made it much simpler.

Also...

[Kbiggs]

A drop-in second valve also means less weight than independent valves, and you retain the longer neckpipe. Cool!

[Burgerbob]

Anyway, that's one heck of an interesting horn. How does it play? Every time I see the "slot in" valves I just think of that really long linkage. I have the Yeo with the Slot in but it's only about an inch away from where it would normally be on a "stacked" setup.

Long linkage but done correctly very short throw.

Yes, and I am waiting on this, but I might just buy some carbon tube and replace the center section of linkage with that. Even stiffer and lighter.

[RJMason]

I just had a performance where I was the only trombone and had to play low Cs and Bs. Yes I could manage it on a Bach 36 with lipping and slide pulling but it wasn’t the correct sound. I ended up bringing my bass trombone with me which sounded perfect, but then I had to play high Bbs and the bass bone didn’t blend as well with the horn section up there. I managed to use both horns, thanks to the AFM contractor convincing the producer that the two horns (and a doubles premium) were necessary. But what if the job refuses to cover such a fee? Or you are unable to travel to the gig with two instruments?

All of this to say I had a perfect use case for a double valve tenor last weekend and I will probably have Scott Sweeney work up a similar solution with some Conn and Blessing horns I have lying around.

[Burgerbob]

If you ever need to borrow it, let me know!