Greg Black "Medium" depth

[claf]

Both Greg Black's "GS" and "AL" cup are labeled as Medium depth. How do they compare ? For example, a 5GS vs a 5AL.

Additionaly, how would a GB NY7 fit into the mix ?

[Burgerbob]

More in line with an older Bach G cup since Greg's Gs are pretty deep. The GSD (a bit deeper) seems to be the more goldilocks depth for most.

[GabrielRice]

The AL and GS mouthpieces have different throat sizes. Even if the cups are identical, the AL will feel significantly smaller.

[claf]

Even if the cups are identical

Not sure to understand, are the cups identical?

Adding an additional information: I'm playing principal in my orchestra, and the current 2nd trombonist (as almost every other trombone player I have played) use a Bach 6-1/2AL (or the Courtois equivalent).
Using something deep on principal is definitely a pain in our music culture here

[GabrielRice]

I don't know if the cups are identical, but it's clear the throat of the AL is smaller.

[claf]

Very clear, thank you.

I'm trying to order a NY7, hard to source over here.

More insights welcome.

[WGWTR180]

What do you use now?

[Meng]

Regarding the cup depth of GS/GSW/GSD and NY7/NY7.25, I tried these rough measurements using some steel balls, FYI. Btw, the greater differences in sound and playing feel to me, probably stems from the backbore models and weight types. The GB Alessi and W series are the tightest #1* backbore, NY is a slightly more open #1 backbore, and GS/GSD are the most open #3 backbore.

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And then, I also found that even the tightest GB #1* backbore is more open than the mouthpiece backbores of Bach, DW, Griego, Hammond, etc.

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[claf]

@Meng: that's very interesting. It's hard to compare the cup shape between the NY7 (5-sized) and the 4.

[claf]

What do you use now?

I was using a GB 4G-5G, it was "too much" in every aspect.
I then switched to a Doug Elliott XT103n F+ 8, which is way better, but still too deep and open.
I recently found that, while I have better everything on this rim size, I do not practice the trombone enough to have endurance and I fare better on a 5 size.
I also tried a Benge Marcellus, but it's hardly narrower and too open in the cup/throat/backbore.

Pulled off my Marcinkiewicz Peebles and the blow is right where I need it, but I would like a slightly rounder sound and a more comfortable rim.

Iinterestingly enough, I brought the small bore with the Marcinkiewicz 9B to rehearsal yesterday and it was very good in terms of feeling and sound (at least for this session).

I might just get a Doug Elliott LT101 E 8, but I'm exploring all the options.

[Meng]

As previously hypothesized, most GB models (NY3/5/7, NY7.25/5.25) made in similar years share nearly identical cup shapes, with only the rim diameter varying.

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[harrisonreed]

What do you use now?

I also tried a Benge Marcellus, but it's hardly narrower and too open in the cup/throat/backbore.

Pulled off my Marcinkiewicz Peebles and the blow is right where I need it, but I would like a slightly rounder sound and a more comfortable rim.

Iinterestingly enough, I brought the small bore with the Marcinkiewicz 9B to rehearsal yesterday and it was very good in terms of feeling and sound (at least for this session).

.... I'm exploring all the options.

You might like my L1 large bore design. I have a bunch of different rim profiles to choose from and none of them have a sharp inner bite. It's a really efficient mouthpiece that kind of "breaks the rules" to get a big round sound, despite the shallow cup and efficient throat.

[claf]

Thank you, I just read your post here and it kind of match what I'm looking for. Being across the Ocean from you might make it complicated to try it though.

[bassclef]

I was using a GB 4G-5G, it was "too much" in every aspect.

I felt exactly the same way when I first got into the GB symphony tenor offerings.

Before you write off GB, I recommend you try the .277/#1 Bore Option they offer on their standard G cup models. This made a world of difference for me in overall effort required for absolute baseline playability.

At the same time, you might also want to experiment with their light blank which is more in line with, and often still a little heavier, than standard offerings from other makers.

For me, both of those variations not only improved general efficiency of sound production, but also opened up easier access to different attack shapes and tone qualities, especially at lower dynamic levels.

[LIBrassCo]

Depth is an illusion people! No such thing!

[JoeStanko]

Bach AL refers to trombonist Al Lube:

Short answer: **Yes — the Vincent Bach 6½AL trombone mouthpiece *is* connected to Al Lube.**

Back in the 1930s–40s, Vincent Bach frequently created mouthpiece variations in collaboration with prominent players. Al Lube was one of the trombonists who worked with Bach on mouthpiece design, especially for medium‑large tenor trombone setups.

The 6½A existed first.
The **6½AL** was a modified version with:

- a **larger throat**
- a **deeper cup**
- a **more open backbore**

These changes were made to suit **Al Lube’s preferences** for a fuller, darker, more orchestral sound.

So the “L” literally means **Lube model**.

Even though it started as a custom variation for Al Lube, it became:

- one of the **most widely used tenor trombone mouthpieces in history**
- a standard for **intermediate and advanced students**
- a go‑to for **band directors**
- a common choice for **small‑bore and medium‑bore horns**

Its balance of comfort, depth, and versatility made it a universal favorite.

[GabrielRice]

It's my understanding that the L in a 5GL stands for Lawrence as in Mark Lawrence, retired principal of the San Francisco Symphony. It's a little shallower cup than a standard 5G.

And the B in a 5GB or 4GB stands for Beversdorf, as in Tom Beversdorf. In this case the variation is the rim contour.

[GabrielRice]

As to specific questions about Greg Black mouthpieces, why not contact Greg and his shop directly? They're very accommodating.