Q vs custom shires alto

[bassbone1993]

Hey all,

Curious for those that have played the q series alto and the custom altos with the TIS mechanism. I’d love to hear thoughts on each

Thanks!

[Danitrb]

Hi I currently play on q Alessi. What a nice instrument! I tested also Custom with TIS, side by side, without notice any difference in build quality/easy of playing/ pitch tendencies but I like more Q Alessi, because specs of horn.

[Finetales]

I've played custom, Q35, and Q Alessi altos side by side and to be honest they felt and sounded pretty much identical. Not my choice for alto, but if I were to buy one I'd just get a Q.

[Thrawn22]

The Q35 Altos a great. The Allessi Q and custom altos were meh.

[bassbone1993]

I've played custom, Q35, and Q Alessi altos side by side and to be honest they felt and sounded pretty much identical. Not my choice for alto, but if I were to buy one I'd just get a Q.

If I had my choice, I’d probably pick up a Rath, maybe a Conn. I’ve just seen a lot about the shires altos and haven’t looked too much st them.

[Finetales]

In my experience they play well but are very one-dimensional. You're pretty much locked into the Shires Alto Sound™, which I don't particularly care for to begin with. I find most other professional altos are a lot more malleable.

[harrisonreed]

I've played the custom TIS series alto with Bb attachment and without attachment pretty extensively. I haven't had a chance to try the Q series yet. Intonation and partials alignment on the TIS shires is very good, but for me every example has been flat. Even pushed in 100% on the tuning mechanism, I have to play shorter on the slide than I usually would (on my 36H) and Db is well in front of the bell, which is annoying. I might be an outlier there -- I shortened my 36H tuning legs (best mod you could ever do) so maybe I just naturally play flat on alto.

So for me the custom alto bell with the continuous taper is a huge win for the great intonation, but the TIS mechanism is useless because the slide is already too long. I also feel that the slide is too heavy for the kind of playing I do on alto.

But the sound (on the yellow bell of course) is really quite nice. A very forgiving alto.

I found that the narrower shank "alto s" DE setup played better than the regular shank on this horn. My own alto mouthpiece shank designs also have a narrower taper, and work well on the Conn and Rath altos in addition to Shires, which all seem to prefer the deeper engagement depth of that type of shank.

A used Eastlake 36H with the tuning legs shortened a bit will likely blow the Shires out of the water. I don't know why straight altos are the norm -- the Bb attachment is indispensable.

[tbonesullivan]

A used Eastlake 36H with the tuning legs shortened a bit will likely blow the Shires out of the water. I don't know why straight altos are the norm -- the Bb attachment is indispensable.

This. It increases the range a bit, but also greatly improves the lip trill possibilities. I have a new elkhart Conn 36H, and I definitely love having the Bb attachment. I've seen altos that have a "trill valve", but for some reason it's often a half step. I'd much rather have the Bb attachment.

Now I just need to find more stuff to play Alto on... Symphonie Fantastique only comes up so often.

[Finetales]

A used Eastlake 36H with the tuning legs shortened a bit will likely blow the Shires out of the water. I don't know why straight altos are the norm -- the Bb attachment is indispensable.

A 36H with a C valve is even better!

[Danitrb]

Hey all,

Curious for those that have played the q series alto and the custom altos with the TIS mechanism. I’d love to hear thoughts on each

Thanks!

If your question was about the difference about Q series and Custom , the difference beetwen prices it is not reflect on the horn quality. So, I would say, save money and take Q serie, Q35 has standard specs and Q Alessi is slightly different. Personally I think Conn 36 H is good instrument but sound a bit like small tenor. I don't agree with other members about intonation/ partials on the Shires.

[tbonesullivan]

Personally I think Conn 36 H is good instrument but sound a bit like small tenor. I don't agree with other members about intonation/ partials on the Shires.

My 36H definitely plays and sounds differently than my Bach 39, though that is also not really a "typical" alto either. Still I think the 36H has that alto quality, despite the larger bore and bell, because having a shorter instrument and bell itself makes a big difference. I also had a lot less trouble blending with the big bore tenors and bass trombones when playing Brahms 2 with it.

[Danitrb]

Personally I think Conn 36 H is good instrument but sound a bit like small tenor. I don't agree with other members about intonation/ partials on the Shires.

My 36H definitely plays and sounds differently than my Bach 39, though that is also not really a "typical" alto either. Still I think the 36H has that alto quality, despite the larger bore and bell, because having a shorter instrument and bell itself makes a big difference. I also had a lot less trouble blending with the big bore tenors and bass trombones when playing Brahms 2 with it.

Sure, I agree with you. But this happens because the rest of section don't scale down also . Do you think sound section could works better and more appropriate with Bach 39, Bach 36 and Bach 42 for this kind of repertoire (not specifically for Brahms 2 , but in general for lighter orchestration)? For sure an alto with bore of Bach 39 could sound appropriate in this context. If we play alto and the rest of section doesn't change bore of instrument we will need bigger and bigger instruments to make things work.

[harrisonreed]

The 36H is highly malleable sound-wise, depending on the mouthpiece you use. I feel like most altos are. The 36H will have a tenor quality if you use a tenor trombone mouthpiece on it.

Altos are tough to assess (and therefore learn as an instrument) sometimes because getting the mouthpiece right is as important as getting the right instrument.

[tbonesullivan]

Sure, I agree with you. But this happens because the rest of section don't scale down also . Do you think sound section could works better and more appropriate with Bach 39, Bach 36 and Bach 42 for this kind of repertoire (not specifically for Brahms 2 , but in general for lighter orchestration)? For sure an alto with bore of Bach 39 could sound appropriate in this context. If we play alto and the rest of section doesn't change bore of instrument we will need bigger and bigger instruments to make things work.

I play mostly in community orchestras, and there is much resistance to "scaling down" unfortunately, even if it would be more appropriate for the piece. I'm not working on Berlioz's Symphony Fantastique, which was specifically written for an alto and two tenor trombones. In that period in France these would have all been very small bore. A bass trombone would probably have been in Eb at that point, and the piece was written right around the time the quartventil was invented.

However, many don't have a smaller bore trombone, even if they have multiple big bore trombones. My efforts to get us to use more appropriate instruments for the piece were unfortunately rebuffed. Everyone wants to blast that pedal Bb on a bass trombone. Berlioz knew what he wanted, and he wanted the biting brassy sound of a relatively small bore tenor playing a pedal Bb.

Honestly I would have even loaned out my trombones to achieve this but no one was interested, even the person playing 1st, trying to play secure biting Ebs on a big bore tenor. The 1990s - 2000s need for everything to be in a heavy tenor still runs strong.

[Posaunus]

The 1990s - 2000s need for everything to be in a heavy tenor still runs strong.

Unfortunate but true.

[tbonesullivan]

The 36H is highly malleable sound-wise, depending on the mouthpiece you use. I feel like most altos are. The 36H will have a tenor quality if you use a tenor trombone mouthpiece on it.

Altos are tough to assess (and therefore learn as an instrument) sometimes because getting the mouthpiece right is as important as getting the right instrument.

Conn is now shipping the 36H with a regular Bach 7C mouthpiece. Which is the same mouthpiece that Bach ships with the 36. Definitely not going to get the best Alto sound with that. I have a great DE setup for my alto now, and the shank REALLY makes a difference on both my Bach 39 and 36H. I also picked up one of the Hammond Friedman Alto pieces, which I also feel works very well. At least for me, I have to match the mouthpiece to the horn. What I love on one horn often doesn't work as well on the others.

[Danitrb]

A used Eastlake 36H with the tuning legs shortened a bit will likely blow the Shires out of the water. I don't know why straight altos are the norm -- the Bb attachment is indispensable.

A 36H with a C valve is even better!

Interesting, it makes sense!