Breath support--how I do it

[ds21]

When you "suck in your gut" to fit into a pair of jeans that are a little snug, you are activating your transversus abdominis. (TVA), your deepest ab muscle. I have been playing for years without using it, but now that I am, my high register has improved, and I can single-tongue faster!
I have a physiological question, however. When you intake air with the TVA activated, does it limit the amount of contraction of the diaphragm?

[BrianJohnston]

I'm in the school against gut support while playing because it doesn't allow a fully resonant sound the way a strong attack and deflating the air does. You can get similar results with more resonance from attacking harder and allowing the air to naturally release the way a full untied balloon does when you let go of it.

If engaging your core works for you, excellent.

As for intaking air, I don't think you should have any muscles engaged. The breath should be relaxed and open like a sudden gasp. The way you breathe naturally while sitting on the couch typically doesn't involve ab involvement. Why would you incorporate it?

[ds21]

Well, my abs were so weak that my posture was really collapsed, and engaging the TVA slightly helps keep my torso more upright.

[BrianJohnston]

I’m unsure of your situation and we are all different, but sounds like either using the back of the chair and or an ergo-bone can help with a lot of this. I could be way off, but want to throw any ideas out there. Typically I’m not using my abs for trombone playing… at all.

[RossM]

I don't really think of sucking the gut in for support, but go back and forth on pushing it out at the belt-line for extra support. It's a method I learned from an old brass band euphonium player; sometimes it feels like a helpful tool, and sometimes it seems to make me feel a bit inflexible, but maybe it's worth experimenting with. Regardless, I was taught that you need to relax the gut while breathing, and re-engage it after the breath.

[AndrewMeronek]

I'm in the school of "don't create extra tension in my body". Doing weird things to breathe is creating extra tension.

That said, there is a natural "spring" action in our breathing mechanics, and we also can manually engage muscles to alter these mechanics at need. But only at need; my default tromboning should NOT add stress. For example, while playing a loud salsa passage I may add extra volume by breathing out harder. This does not involve weird gymnastics with my stomach; I just breathe out harder.

And yes, I believe I have a pretty good understanding of how my breathing works. I've dispelled a bunch of myths over my years of trombone experience.

IMHO: you will get all the knowledge you need of how to breathe and what is your correct posture with a solid "keep the airway open" time-measured breathing exercise.

[ds21]

I should have entitled this thread "My posture was so bad and collapsed that I couldn't take in very much air".
My emphasis on the TVA was because it was new to me; I should have been doing it all along. Its atrophy is the primary reason I have chronic lower back pain.
If you fellers have reasonably good posture you are unconsciously using your TVA, in my not-expert opinion!

[VJOFan]

Lifting barbells will improve posture. It will also improve awareness of core muscles if done correctly. This is the place for the straight info on safe lifting techniques.

https://www.youtube.com/@BarbellLogic/s ... y=how%20to

[slidesix]

Yoga practice. Meditation. These all help me these days. The wife and I do yoga either in person or over a MS Teams call with a yoga instructor twice a week. I also suggest weight training to improve core muscles and posture, too. I use kettlebells. I started doing that when Covid lockdowns started. I think swimming or swimming laps and underwater swimming could also be helpful here.

I am not sure I follow your question about TVA. But I find anything that causes or creates tension to be bad when playing trombone. Being more relaxed and mindful helps. And practice builds repetition and success.

I'm concerned your technique here might to be overcompensate with focused strength. And I'm sure in the short term that can be successful--meaning if you take it away the benefits also go away-- leading you to think that is maybe how it should be done. You can observe this phenomenon with any young trombone student who uses too much pressure of the face into a mouthpiece, as incorrect embouchure. When the student takes away the force of pressing, their range suffers. So they keep using the pressure thinking it is correct. When instead they need to reduce it to first principles or get advice of a reputible teacher. I should know, I was once that student!

[JTeagarden]

I’m a big believer in removing unnecessary tension, but have experienced my core strength go down significantly as I have gotten older, so i have to consciously suck in my gut when playing to produce the right amount of air pressure.

I assume that if I were to strengthen my core, what is currently a conscious effort will no longer be necessary.

[JTeagarden]

Just went to the doctor, who indicates my deep core muscles have weakened to the point where the exterior abdominals (the 6-pack) have pulled away from each other ( a function of aging, gaining some weight, and bad form while lifting weights), so my conscious effort to engage my core muscles when exhaling is probably the right thing for me while I work on strengthening the deeper TVA muscle.

Strengthening the TVA will kill at least three birds with one stone, so I'll be concentrating on core, and laying off heavier stuff until I have things a bit more in equilibrium.

[dwcarder]

JTeagarden - glad to hear you're on a path to better core strength. I had hurt my back years ago and went to physical therapy which was all focused on isometric TVA work. After about 2-3 months I really started to feel a difference and have kept it up ever since. Among other things, it helped my posture and my brass playing.