Eastlake factory to close?

[Macbone1]

I saw in a post on Facebook where the King Eastlake factory will be closed by summer and the workers laid off.
What does that mean for King loyalists? Will operations be moved to Elkhart? No way can they stop making King trombones!
Conn of course had divested themselves of (many great) small bores except for the mediocre 100H. Will everyone expected to buy Bach 12s and 16s, going forward?

[Burgerbob]

No pro trombones were made in Eastlake as of a few years ago. It manufactured the 8D horn and the King tubas and euphs.

[Macbone1]

Thanks. Good news for the trombone world anyway.
Not sure how well the 8D is doing these days, they used to be everywhere. Can't remember the last time I saw a King tuba or euphonium.

[GabrielRice]

The King 2341 is an excellent BBb tuba - I hope they keep making it. And the 8D is still the horn many teachers recommend for their ambitious students to play at least through high school.

[Macbone1]

The King 2341 is an excellent BBb tuba - I hope they keep making it. And the 8D is still the horn many teachers recommend for their ambitious students to play at least through high school.

Yes, I hope they keep making all of them at Elkhart

[Thrawn22]

The King 2341 is an excellent BBb tuba - I hope they keep making it. And the 8D is still the horn many teachers recommend for their ambitious students to play at least through high school.

Yes, I hope they keep making all of them at Elkhart

They won't.

[brassmedic]

Mods, do you want to consolidate this with the earlier thread on the same subject?

[TomRiker]

In case anyone hasn’t seen tuba and euph production is moving to China

[TomRiker]

In case anyone hasn’t seen tuba and euph production is moving to China

[Macbone1]

In case anyone hasn’t seen tuba and euph production is moving to China

That will of course make the American made ones relatively more valuable.

[JohnL]

Mods, do you want to consolidate this with the earlier thread on the same subject?

Bruce used to take care of a lot of that sort of "tidying up" type stuff. I had the impression that, as his health declined, he spent more and more time logged in here.

[jacobgarchik]

I'm seeing this described as "the last tuba made in the US". Is that true?
IIRC Tubas have been made in the US since the civil war.

[chromebone]

I'm seeing this described as "the last tuba made in the US". Is that true?
IIRC Tubas have been made in the US since the civil war.

Assuming Conn-Selmer is actually not building tubas anymore in the US, Lee Stofer, a small custom builder in Iowa, is the only one left making tubas.

[Burgerbob]

Gnagey is also building tubas, but out of previously built tubas. Not sure if that counts.

[RJMason]

The news clips online are so heart breaking. The sousaphone was invented in America by Americans, for Americans. That fact that it will no longer be made in America is inconceivable to me. C-S disabled comments on their socials yesterday, but feel free to give them a piece of your mind on the internet!!!

[elmsandr]

The news clips online are so heart breaking. The sousaphone was invented in America by Americans, for Americans. That fact that it will no longer be made in America is inconceivable to me. C-S disabled comments on their socials yesterday, but feel free to give them a piece of your mind on the internet!!!

Well; Americans: 75% think it would be better if we had more manufacturing here. But then when asked only 25% would think that it would be better if they worked in manufacturing. Survey any market: how much are people willing to pay to buy local; they will say a lot but never back that up with their wallet.

We, uh, clearly do not respect or value careers in manufacturing.

Signed,
a manufacturing engineer.

[jacobgarchik]

This whole thing makes me sad, so I wrote about it.

https://substack.com/home/post/p-184448351

[jonathanharker]

Interesting.

I have been editing the Wikipedia tuba article recently, which although a lot better than before, still needs work. Thank you @jacobgarchik for your article - this will be a useful source. It has been interesting digging up some of the history of US manufacturers. I recently finished Sam Quinones' recent book, The Perfect Tuba (2025), which expands on the closure of KMI in Anaheim. Among Zig's last efforts before he died in 2016 were building about 100 York-inspired tubas, which he couldn't shift largely because of 1. the small market for 6/4 professional orchestral tubas, 2. the advent of cheap Chinese instruments, and possibly 3. quality control issues with the remaining workforce, declining because of 1 and 2.

I gather that O'Malley (maker in Chicago, not the stencilled Chinese instruments) and BAC in Kansas City bought the Kanstul tooling around 2017–19 after KMI closed, and it appears that BAC are still offering tubas, including a York knock-off and a 3-valve sousaphone. Does anyone know if they are being made in Kansas City, or are they stencilled Chinese instruments? (I can't tell if the ~ $12,000 price on the website for the Chicago horn is in USD or my local currency).

It seems that Conn-Selmer brands (Holton, King, Conn) haven't been making the larger orchestral tubas for a couple of decades or more, and only doing mainly student and marching instruments. In Quinones' book, it is mentioned that the only place they could find in the US in 2009 that still had the tooling to spin a tuba bell from scratch from sheets of brass was Zig Kanstul. Blessing, owned (resurrected?) since 2015 by St Louis Music, make a small student model tuba and non-compensating euphoniums, but it's unclear if any of their instruments are made in the US.

The only other place in the world apart from China still making tubas is Central Europe (Germany, Austria, Czech Republic, Switzerland) - but even they're feeling the pinch of consolidation.[1] Besson, B&S and Melton Meinl Weston are all now part of Buffet Crampon, Besson tuba production moved to Germany, and Willson were bought by Eastman.

Notes:
1. Okay fine. Weril, an Austrian family who emigrated to Brazil in 1909, make tubas and euphoniums in São Paulo. And Yamaha in Japan, of course. Oh and since I'm counting Taiwan as a separate country from China because the CCP can go jump in the lake, the C1680 is a professional C tuba from XO, the high-end brand from Taiwan-based KHS Music, who also make Jupiter instruments.

[jacobgarchik]

pretty good list here, which seems to indicate there are still makers in Netherlands, France and Italy.

https://www.tubaforum.net/viewtopic.php?t=3795

[jonathanharker]

PGM Couesnon closed in 2023; Kalison in Milan is now G&P Winds and not making tubas, although Orsi (also Milan) make a piston valve B♭ tuba.

[jacobgarchik]

Courtois still makes saxhorns. Kind of surprising there are no English Eb tenorhorn makers left? nobody plays those as much as they do in England.

[jacobgarchik]

This kind of reminds me of the situation where the bandoneon became more popular in Argentina than where they were made, in Germany.

[slidesix]

Jacob, thanks for your thoughts and the article your wrote. For Tuba and Sousaphone players, the news of the Eastlake plant closing and tuba and sousaphone production moving to china (overseas from U.S. perspective) likely hits hard or hits differently does it does for other brass players, like trombonists. So it is nice to have a tuba player's perspective here.

[slidesix]

Is Miraphone still making rotary valve tubas? Still in Germany? Those were my preference for a wind band tuba or an orchestra tuba since those were the horns the High School had for us. I found they were nice tubas (4/4 size BBb contra, 4 valve rotary) and enjoyed playing one for a time. Thanks

[ZacharyThornton]

Miraphone is still making some of the best tubas in the world, still in Germany including the classic rotary tubas. I would even say they are more known for rotary tubas than piston.

[jonathanharker]

Courtois still makes saxhorns. Kind of surprising there are no English Eb tenorhorn makers left? nobody plays those as much as they do in England.

and in ex-British Commonwealth countries like Australia and NZ, and bandas in Mexico. In the US they kinda vanished in the 70s with the whole school band and DCI marching thing and got replaced by mellophones.

Nobody (big) is making brass instruments in Britain now aside from Paxman horns (thanks for the reminder, @JohnL!) and Rath trombones, now owned by John Packer, whose other instruments are mostly China stencils; possibly their Sterling euphoniums are still being made in the UK but they're pretty cagey about not mentioning where on the website). And Mike Johnson makes small numbers of amazing cimbassos to order (and recently, a contrabass trombone!). B&H/Besson flogged what was left of the London manufacturing to Buffet Crampon, who promptly moved it back to France and then to Germany (and India?) which is how the giant shop-sign tuba ended up at the Horniman Museum. Courtois is now Buffet Crampon too, and only make the 4-valve B♭ saxhorn, essentially a euphonium. They used to do the six-valve French C tuba; maybe they still do if you ask them nicely? Everyone is doing their student/school gear out of China now.

[jonathanharker]

Miraphone is still making some of the best tubas in the world, still in Germany including the classic rotary tubas. I would even say they are more known for rotary tubas than piston.

Absolutely. In fact, tubas with piston valves are (broadly) only a thing in British-style brass bands (the top-action E♭ and B♭ "basses") and front-action York-like tubas (and sousaphones) in North America. Pretty much everywhere else in the world, tubas have rotary valves.

[JohnL]

Nobody (big) is making instruments in Britain now aside from Rath trombones, now owned by Packer...

Is Paxman still soldiering (soldering?) on? Last I heard, they were still building their professional line in Britain, with their "Academy" and "Primo" lines being manufactured in China.

[jonathanharker]

Nobody (big) is making instruments in Britain now aside from Rath trombones, now owned by Packer...

Is Paxman still soldiering (soldering?) on? Last I heard, they were still building their professional line in Britain, with their "Academy" and "Primo" lines being manufactured in China.

Oh yeah, and Paxman sorry, I probably forgot a bunch of mfrs... just off the top of my head from looking all this up recently for tuba and band instrument Wikipedia articles (btw, Tenor horn is currently being reviewed for Good Article status )

[jacobgarchik]

nice article
I believe the alto horn is also referred to in Mexico as armonia.

There's a wide gulf between british brass band soloists playing $6000 Bessons and what banda players do. There are certainly well equipped bandas with big budgets, new horns and great players but i've never seen anyone with an English style high end tenor horn with like tuning slide triggers and what not. New Yamaha, yes, but I believe those were the student line, 203...but mexico is vast, so maybe I'm wrong. Vast majority are buying new chinese horns now. They used to all play American instruments.

As to English makers I was curious about this and googled up a few post-Besson makers, who all shuttered in the last decades. There was one called LMI? Sterling and Geneva?

As to piston valves, yeah, front-action York like are still pretty common. Yamaha makes them, Euro makers are making them, chinese makers. Even played in Euro orchestras. A lot of orchestral tuba players prefer piston valves because of the response.

sousaphones and tubas with pistons also popular in Brasil. and African brass bands, although I suppose you could argue many are colonial "british".

see this for instance



the whole piston/rotary thing is so interesting - was fascinated to study traditions of Serbia, where they use rotary flugels with trumpet mouthpieces, and then Macedonia, right next door, but more likely to have piston trumpets. But a great Bulgarian band I love has both rotary and piston.

[jacobgarchik]

I don't know if you are also writing/revising the wiki for the OTHER tenorhorn (Bb) but I wrote a page about it long ago.

https://web.archive.org/web/20110713073 ... rhorn.html

[claf]

Courtois still makes saxhorns. Kind of surprising there are no English Eb tenorhorn makers left? nobody plays those as much as they do in England.

Courtois are german-made for several years.
PGM Couesnon indeed closed a few years ago.

The only "quality" Eb alto/tenor horn makers today are Besson and Yamaha.

The is a trumpet maker in France, Jerome Wiss, that is making sousaphones but I'm not sure about their availability.

[jacobgarchik]

wow that sousaphone is something else.

these look quality
made in Czech?

https://genevainstruments.com/product/g ... enor-horn/

[jacobgarchik]

getting far afield from the original topic but another curiosity:
Austrian/Slovenian polka bands (not the brass bands) have, not tubas playing the bass lines, but bell-front 4 valve piston baritone horns. These are like really fancy, souped up versions of mid century American student baritone horns.
This is very odd to me because most of the brass bands I've seen have oval, rotary tenorhorns. Weird!




definitely a niche market.

[harrisonreed]

Those acoustics are really good up there in the Alps!

[Posaunus]

Those acoustics are really good up there in the Alps!

Well, the audio recording was made in a studio - the outdoor scenes were all lip-synced!

Yodel ay hee hoo

[jonathanharker]

I don't know if you are also writing/revising the wiki for the OTHER tenorhorn (Bb) but I wrote a page about it long ago.

I was going to nominate baritone horn, but it needs a bit more work on American usage of the word "baritone"; I got Euphonium up to GA though, and currently working on tuba.

[jacobgarchik]

Baritone is tough to explain. There are manufacturers who simultaneously made Bb instruments they described as tenor, baritone and euphonium. and sometimes "kaiser baritone" as well.
Here's an old King catalog with an American "tenor". Friend has one and it's a cool little horn. Not really a trombonium.

Screen Shot 2026-01-17 at 8.05.18 AM.png

I have a Czech Lignatone (cerveny) oval tenorhorn. Not sure the bore but it plays smaller than an American baritone.

[JohnL]

Baritone is tough to explain.

You have to include a modifier unless it's clear from the context which kind of instrument you're talking about. I use the terms "British-style baritone", "American-style baritone", "oval baritone", and "kaiser baritone" to keep things straight.

Tenor horns are the same thing; "Eb tenor horn", "American-style tenor horn", and "oval tenor horn"

Here's an old King catalog with an American "tenor". Friend has one and it's a cool little horn. Not really a trombonium.

I have a Conn American-style tenor horn from the early 1900's; it's a great little horn and I wish I had someplace to play it.

I have a Czech Lignatone (cerveny) oval tenorhorn. Not sure the bore but it plays smaller than an American baritone.

The modern Cerveny oval tenor horns are .520" (13.2 mm); significantly smaller than the typical .562" (14.3mm) American-style baritone horn.

But we have wandered far afield from the original topic...