Symphony vs. Opera

[Savio]

First of all I admit I don't have much experience with either of these.

But I ask you trombonists that have more experience, what is the difference in how you prepare to an opera vs. a symphony? Also sound wise sitting in a pit or open in a big hall. Also difference in how much attention to conductor, the singers, the orchestra/trombone group. I believe when there is singers involved we have have to be more open for everything.

I'm going to play Mahler 2. soon. It's not an opera but there is singers and even a choir involved.

Leif

[GabrielRice]

First of all...Mahler 2! It's the piece that made me want to be a professional musician and still one of my very favorite to play. Enjoy!

I've played some opera but more ballet. The acoustics of any pit can be challenging; for the pit of the Opera House in Boston (where the Boston Ballet performs) I had to darken my sound significantly, because it's fairly small, quite live, and the brass usually blow directly into plexiglass shields. The brilliance that I cultivate in my sound for concert stages just tended to stick out there in ways that were not always welcome. I was able to make an equipment change that helped make me much more comfortable and blend better with the brass section there.

For opera in particular, it's very important to be able to play lightly and transparently, but be able to change quickly to much more powerful sounds when needed. Others can go into more detail, I'm sure.

[jmjtrombone]

This is a great question!

I’ve had the chance to play and learn about being a professional musician in symphony and opera orchestras over the last couple of years, so I’m excited to share my thoughts.

To begin, I believe getting the music ready is quite similar. You need to know your part inside out, understand what it means in the bigger picture, and how it fits with the rest of the orchestra. For symphonic pieces, that’s usually all there is to it. However, when it comes to opera, there’s an extra layer of what’s happening on stage. I see my role as supporting the singers, which means being flexible and really paying attention to what’s going on.

When I’m playing in a pit instead of on stage, I try to bring warmth and clarity to my opera playing. I really concentrate on blending with my section and ensuring that those one-note “hits” have clear, strong fronts. Plus, I keep in mind that my main goal is to support the singers, so I avoid playing louder than necessary and instead listen to the conductor’s cues for dynamics. With that being said, I some experience with pitwork for musicals and in those times, i had more flexibility with dynamics because of the colors they invoke.

When I perform, I bring those same ideas to life, but I also emphasize projection and presence. Because the symphony is the star of the show, I can express dynamics more directly and with a wider range. I bring up presence because my instrument is a tool for the composer to achieve a specific color. So even when there are times when my part isn't the most prominent, it still has importance and needs to heard (and correctly balanced)
Last, since we have more space on stage, my Spidey senses are "on", to ensure I play in time with the baton and other instruments on stage. All that to say, I play louder .

Regarding Mahler 2, it’s important to really understand your part and how it works when you’re playing alongside the singers. Most importantly, don't overthink it. Trust in your preparation and approach rehearsals with a flexible mindset, ready to embrace whatever the stage presents.

[blast]

Hi Leif, being a grandad and playing Mahler 2.... it doesn't get anybetter !! One of my most memorable musical moments, was listening to Bernstein conduct Mahler 2 with the LSO in Ely Cathedral. I was still at school, and sat behind my hero's. The sound was unreal and amazing, though the recording failed to properly capture that sound. Are you playing 3rd or 4th ? Either way, you have one of the best seats in the house.
Opera v Symphony.....
After more than 40 years playing Opera, I can say that there is a difference....a big difference. Playing in a very large box and not drowning singers brings challenges. We have to, at times, play sounding ff when actually playing mf. It's not easy to describe, but we play with lots of overtones in the loud sound ,but with richness though not huge weight. Symphony players can play very loudly and also very quietly and with great precision, and tend to play as near to a conductor's beat as the strings allow. In opera, we often play quite a way behind the beat, as singers tend to do this, and we don't want to get ahead of the singers. We often have to play a lot of notes.... usually in valve trombone parts. We can also play for rather a long time....we go back to Tristan next week, and that Opera runs for 5 1/2 hours. Opera is different. We play dark in a bright way, loud in a quiet way, and precisely in an vague way. Opera has so many challenges....that's why I like it.

[Macbone1]

All good advice. As challenging as counting rests can be in orchestra, it can be much more challenging for operas. The pulse is much more flexible at any given time and will change slightly from performance to performance.
Written cues in your part are crucial! If you have the good fortune to be thoroughly rehearsed, your ear will eventually learn where to come in (or at least where to watch to come in) but be sure to have one eye on the conductor anyway. Of course.

[GabrielRice]

Hi Leif, being a grandad and playing Mahler 2.... it doesn't get anybetter !! One of my most memorable musical moments, was listening to Bernstein conduct Mahler 2 with the LSO in Ely Cathedral.

And one of mine was seeing the NY Phil in open rehearsal with Bernstein conducting Mahler 2.

Opera is different. We play dark in a bright way, loud in a quiet way, and precisely in an vague way. Opera has so many challenges....that's why I like it.

Love this!

[sf105]

I'm just an amateur but I've done quite a few concert operas. In addition to what everyone else says, I find the big difference is the extreme rubato. The conductor has to follow the singers wherever they go and we have to follow the conductor. My first Puccini at college I was completely lost, but now I kinda feel it. But one thing that helped over the years was developing an opera addiction, so at least now I know how it's supposed to sound.

And it's probably not a real opera if the parts are legible...

Choral works seem to be a bit more straightforward, less drama in the solo parts, and choirs are pretty inflexible.

[CalgaryTbone]

First of all, Mahler 2nd - one of the greatest pieces of music ever written! Add to that, beautiful chorales for the low brass, as well as for the whole brass section. Great earth-shattering moments as well. I played what I'm pretty sure was my last Mahler 2 at the end of last season - always a thrill!

My orchestra plays for the local Opera company, so we play a few operas every season. Chris nailed it with his descriptions of the differences - a lot of adjusting dynamics for the space, or for your role (trombones are the "star of the show" even less often than they are in symphonies). Flexibility is key - lots of tempo variations to allow some freedom for the singers, and there are major issues getting things together with distant chorus members, and an orchestra that is set up very differently to fit into a pit. Lots of really watching the conductor and really listening to other sections and singers, and using your best judgement as to whether your eyes or your ears are your best guide at that moment.

One thing not mentioned - opera parts often have very little information during your downtimes. Sometimes the part just says "tacet until" and gives you a cue just before your entrance, and often that cue isn't very obvious, or its a vocal line that won't be there during the initial rehearsals. I've found that it's really important to write in more cues to let you know the next entrance is coming up. Even when all of the rests are there, operas have so many tempo changes, and empty bars, that following along can be difficult. Just noting that there's an oboe solo, or the horns have a big chord can make you a lot more comfortable.

Enjoy!

Jim Scott

[StephenK]

Can't really offer a comparison as I haven't played opera. As an amateur who started playing in a good local orchestra at 60 I feel very privileged to have played Mahler 1, 2,3, 9 and Totenfier, Mahler 2 being one of my very favourite and admired pieces since my teens!
Not much advice, but enjoy it and prepare well, get some in person help if you think it will help. (I certainly did in Mahler3!).

[GabrielRice]

I did a concert once with one of the star attraction acts of sexy young Italian tenors singing greatest hits of Italian operas. Panties thrown on the stage, a schtick about it being the 21st birthday of one of them that day, the whole nine yards...

Anyway, there was a click track that the whole orchestra and the conductor and I suppose the singers were all hearing. And it was almost entirely rubato, clicks coming seemingly at random. Amazing...the conductor, who spoke very little English, was pretty much right with it all the time.

[Mikebmiller]

The first time I played an opera, I was in HS and played in the pit for the local women's college production of ??? I have no idea what it was. All I remember is being lost literally the entire time - like not even sure which song we were playing lost. I bet I didn't get 10 notes right the whole night. Let's just say it was an interesting experience.

[Savio]

A little update. It's not until March. And they won't do the whole Mahler 2. Haven't received the sheet music, but hope to play the chorale in the last movement. Since they've asked me to play, it has to be trombone. And yes, they say I'll play third trombone. Not fourth trombone. I've seen the sheet music on IMSLP. That chorale is amazing!

I'm a little excited to play Mahler. And also visit my grandson who is 5 days old tomorrow.

Leif