Protec IPAC bass case users: What's up with ... ?

[ghmerrill]

After ringing my hands for close to a year, I finally broke down and got a Protec IPAC (IP309CT) bass trombone case for my 1052FD. For the most part, I think it's great. But I'm somewhat puzzled by what Protec describes as the "Instrument strap: Adjustable padded strap with buckle closure to keep your instrument in place."

This seems totally useless to me and -- if you use it -- is just one more thing you have to deal with to get the horn in and out of the case. Once the case is closed, it contributes nothing to the security of the horn or its movement in the case -- or so it seems to me. The horn is firmly held in place by the "modular blocks" and the "tenon brace." I'm inclined to cut the silly thing off because it's just in the way. Do people actually use this strap, and if so, why?

Other minor complaints ( ): The shoulder strap is virtually useless, at least for me. I can't imagine what they were thinking in terms of the anchor ring placement for this -- but maybe that's just me. I've got a backpack strap set on order (from Amazon) that I think I can use either as a pair for the backpack effect, or as a single (usable) shoulder strap. But we'll have to see how that works out. I don't like the looks of the Protec backpack strap set configuration (mostly because it's a single continuous strap), but may have to resort to that if something about the top anchor point doesn't work out.

[Burgerbob]

The protec backpack straps are not great, no.

[ghmerrill]

The protec backpack straps are not great, no.

They do appear to be under thought and over engineered.

[hyperbolica]

The (tenor) pro pac is almost 11 lbs. The ipac is 10+, and the max is 6+. I've owned pro and max, and while the pro is a nice case, it's not worth the weight. $6-800 for a Bono or $180 for a Max.

I'm not 100% on the max straps either. My strap preference is old school Reunion Blues bandolier. The max strap works OK, but I think it turns the horn the wrong way on your back.

[JohnL]

As for the instrument strap?

Ever see someone pick up a case they thought was latched/zipped but wasn't?

[ghmerrill]

The (tenor) pro pac is almost 11 lbs. The ipac is 10+, and the max is 6+. I've owned pro and max, and while the pro is a nice case, it's not worth the weight. $6-800 for a Bono or $180 for a Max.

Yeah, those sorts of considerations were all part of the hand-wringing process for me. The iPac is definitely hefty, but my scenario is a pretty simple one where the requirements are (a) carrying the horn into and out of practice to an immediately adjacent parking lot, (b) carrying it in and out of several performances per year to a nearby parking lot, and (c) carrying it in and of of the car to my home practice room (approximately 3 steps). So while I can't tolerate the weight and bulk of the original Getzen case (which I'm pretty sure weighs approximately 200 lbs.), the weight of the iPac is fine for me. If I had a "serious" rehearsal or performance schedule, things would be different.

The max strap works OK, but I think it turns the horn the wrong way on your back.

The iPac is the same. I think that the intended use is carry the horn horizontally at waist height with the strap over your shoulder. That would work well for something like a corner or flute. The 3rd trombone in the big band I play in has a tenor Max case, and it's isomorphic to the Schiller case I've been using (though somewhat higher quality). But it (like the Schiller and other "traditional" trombone cases) puts the slide in the top half of the open case, held in with two straps and needing to be fit over a small "cushion". This turns out to be very cumbersome for me (and at times risky) in the somewhat peculiar venue we practice in. So one of my primary desiderata was to be able to just plop the slide into its protective sleeve with one hand -- and the iPac has exactly that feature.

[AtomicClock]

This seems totally useless to me and -- if you use it -- is just one more thing you have to deal with to get the horn in and out of the case.

I feel the same way about the velcro that holds the two carry handles together. Fortunately, mine fell off 15 years ago.

[ghmerrill]

As for the instrument strap?

Ever see someone pick up a case they thought was latched/zipped but wasn't?

Actually no -- not that I dispute that happens. But I've been playing big brass for about 35 years and never done that. And it seems to me that someone who might do that might also forget to fasten the instrument strap.

I did once (in college, in a pep band after a hockey game) manage not to latch my flute case successfully and bounce the flute off a concrete stadium floor. But those Armstrong flutes could take a good, hit and it was undamaged. Plus, I'd paid only $20 for it in a pawn shop. I'm a lot more careful with the Getzen 1052. At my age, I have to be ... or I'd be forgetfully leaving things like mouthpieces, tuners, cell phones, tablets, trombone stands, etc. strewn across the landscape.

[ghmerrill]

I feel the same way about the velcro that holds the two carry handles together. Fortunately, mine fell off 15 years ago.

EVERYBODY seems irritated about this. I almost never even bother with it -- just close it on itself and forget about it.

Hmmm ... now that I look at it, I see that the Propac one isn't stitched around the one handle -- the handle goes through a loop in it. ........ I just cut it off -- what an improvement!!

[GabrielRice]

The IPAC seems way overpriced to me. For that much weight I'd much rather spend more to get better protection, better durability, and a much more compact profile with a Marcus Bonna case.

OTOH, I think the ProTec Explorer bass trombone gig bag is about the best designed, most convenient gig bag available. And it's an amazing bargain to boot.

[ghmerrill]

The IPAC seems way overpriced to me. For that much weight I'd much rather spend more to get better protection, better durability, and a much more compact profile with a Marcus Bonna case.
If I were a pro, I'd probably be thinking the same way.

OTOH, I think the ProTec Explorer bass trombone gig bag is about the best designed, most convenient gig bag available. And it's an amazing bargain to boot.

I have one of those. I was using it for the Schiller horn for a while. I'd NEVER use it for the Getzen. It is very convenient, extremely light, and takes up little space. It also has the protection level of the average grocery bag. A very minor slip and mild bump on the ground of the bell section can put a deformity in your bell. Guess how I know? (That was after I improved it's protection level in a couple of different ways.) But if you just want something to carry between home and car, and car and venue, and you're NEVER going to leave it unattended -- it's great, convenient, and inexpensive.

[GabrielRice]

I use it when what I need is an extremely light case because I need to walk a lot with it. It's worth the risk to save my back. And when I need that I usually also need a practice mute, and the one I like fits inside the bell in that bag but not my Marcus Bonna.

[ghmerrill]

It's good to keep a mute in the bell when using that bag -- as a bell protector in case of an accidental drop. I actually made an attempt to craft a mute-like bell protector for the bag -- but after all that effort, I could see that it really wouldn't work well, particularly in protecting the bell from sideways hits. The bell compartment on that bag is just too flimsy to do much with it. I did like how the slide fits in it, and improved that with a sandwich of two ~3/8" pieces of rigid (I think EVA) foam.

[dbwhitaker]

I like the IPAC because I can store horns with a Rath hand brace attached. The PRO PAC model (as well as some models from other brands) won't work with horns with a Rath hand brace. At $300 retail it is much cheaper than Marcus Bonna case.

I find the "velcro that holds the two carry handles together" to be helpful. I have a case from another brand that does not have this and the handles flop to the ground on either side of the case - it takes two hands to pick it up.

[AtomicClock]

I have a case from another brand that does not have this and the handles flop to the ground on either side of the case - it takes two hands to pick it up.

Protec offers this as an accessory, too. Maybe it fits on your "another brand" case?
https://www.protecstyle.com/BALLISTIC-N ... WRAP-BLACK

[slidesix]

But I'm somewhat puzzled by what Protec describes as the "Instrument strap: Adjustable padded strap with buckle closure to keep your instrument in place."

This seems totally useless to me and -- if you use it -- is just one more thing you have to deal with to get the horn in and out of the case. Once the case is closed, it contributes nothing to the security of the horn or its movement in the case -- or so it seems to me. The horn is firmly held in place by the "modular blocks" and the "tenon brace." I'm inclined to cut the silly thing off because it's just in the way. Do people actually use this strap, and if so, why?

I'm with you. I'm fairly confident in my ability to have the bell section stay in place.

Once the case is closed, it contributes nothing to the security of the horn or its movement in the case -- or so it seems to me.

I think this strap is for others. Some like the added insurance of keeping the bell section in place when either the case is opening or closing or if the user thinks the case is zippered close and they pick it up without checking--it is added insurance to keep the bell section in place and not falling out when the case isn't closed.

Others like the insurance. Others have had accidents in cases without those straps and would rather not have a repeat accident and in that case those customers are happy these straps exist.

With that said: If that type of customer isn't you, then you may cut them out as you suggest. I hope maybe this clears this up for you!

[slidesix]

In an opposite scenario, there are molded cases like the BAM Bass Trombone case that lack this strap. In reviews of that case, customers have complained about the lack of the very bell section strap you mention here on the IPAC.

I think it just depends on how secure the bell section really sits in there while opening and shutting the case. I think everyone's experience is different.

Strapless, I tend to not have these mishaps

Good question to ask of the community here though!

[ghmerrill]

Protec offers this as an accessory, too. Maybe it fits on your "another brand" case?
https://www.protecstyle.com/BALLISTIC-N ... WRAP-BLACK

I do think there's a lot of personal preference in this sort of thing. While some people may prefer the feel of the "wrap-around" velcro handle wrap, I much prefer the ease and feel of the "rope-like" handles that it wraps. For me the handle wrap is just another thing that I need to deal with in using the case: extra effort from which I gain no benefit. On the other hand (no pun intended), I don't have very large hands, and those with larger hands may prefer the wrap.

[ghmerrill]

In reviews of that case, customers have complained about the lack of the very bell section strap you mention here on the IPAC.

Whatever the rationality or genuine benefit of the strap, Protec may have run their design by some "focus" groups and simply decided to include (or add) the strap in response to comments from those.

I've discovered that it's easy enough to stuff out of the way between cushion blocks and the case walls -- rendering it non-irritating.

[bassclef]

The protec backpack straps are not great, no.

They do appear to be under thought and over engineered.

When you get those, there's a plastic buckle of sorts which attaches the top of the straps to top of the case. This is in the spot which is behind your neck/in between your shoulders. When you first feed it through the loop on the case and snap it "closed", have a zip tie or two on hand. Use those through that keyhole opening and around the opposite piece to keep it from coming open.

Trust me, do it.

[ghmerrill]

Here's what I've got coming. I'm not entirely sure I can make it work, but it's worth a try.

BASSDASH Backpack Straps Replacement Adjustable Padded Shoulder Straps for Backpack Dry Bag (Ladder Lock Buckles) https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F43WGJQ8?re ... title&th=1

[bassclef]

Ah okay, you won't have to worry about that stupid plastic piece on the ProTec straps.

I think those will work fine. There is a single attachment point on the case for the top of the straps, but you should be able to just thread both of the straps you've bought into that.

[ghmerrill]

There is a single attachment point on the case for the top of the straps, but you should be able to just thread both of the straps you've bought into that.

That's what I'm thinking. Otherwise maybe add a couple of rings to that attachment point. We'll see.

[hyperbolica]

As for the strap, if the case falls open it prevents the bell from falling out. Holton had something like that as well. I use the one in my Max case partially because it's in the way if I don't. Also, on cases with bell and slide in opposite halves of the case, if a trigger paddle hits the slide, it can do a lot of damage.

My Eastman case has a pair of velcro flaps that do kind of the same thing as the strap.

My favorite case layout is one where the slide goes into a slot near the hinge on the same side as the bell. This keeps valve levers from hitting the slide and the other side of the case can prevent bell and slide from moving around.

[Posaunus]

My favorite case layout is one where the slide goes into a slot near the hinge on the same side as the bell. This keeps valve levers from hitting the slide and the other side of the case can prevent bell and slide from moving around.

[ghmerrill]

My favorite case layout is one where the slide goes into a slot near the hinge on the same side as the bell.

Exactly -- and that's what this iPAC case provides. For me it's a major consideration in being able to get the horn in and out of the case, quickly assembled, directly and without needing three hands to ensure that juggling isn't required. Since at each band practice I contend with the bari sax player for case space and uncasing/casing turf in pretty tight quarters, it's great to be able to just open the case, pull the slide out with the right hand, pull the bell section out with the left, assemble the horn, close the empty case one-handed (this is where that Velcro strap across the zipper really has value), stand the case in the corner, and walk away. Re-casing is just the reverse sequence, but with less time pressure and turf competition.

I would actually prefer a totally top-loading case, where both the slide and the bell section are dropped in from the top -- no hinges involved. But I couldn't find one that I liked and thought was a reasonable cost for me.

Having managed to stuff the hold-down strap out of the way, I'm good with the result. These other "could happen"/"might happen" disaster scenarios I just don't feel as realistic threats, although I can understand that others might.

[JohnL]

These other "could happen"/"might happen" disaster scenarios I just don't feel as realistic threats, although I can understand that others might.

Some people always make sure to secure their case whenever they put their horn in it. OTOH, I see a lot of people just put the horn in the case, close the lid, and walk away without securing it (this typically happens during breaks at rehearsals and, to a lesser extent, gigs). You strike me as being kind of person who always secures his case; if so, that strap is, as you pointed out, unnecessary.

[ghmerrill]

You strike me as being kind of person who always secures his case; if so, that strap is, as you pointed out, unnecessary.

Yeah, with a horn I paid $4,000 for -- definitely. But actually with any horn -- including the cheap $500 "Schiller" it replaced. I'm always real careful with my tools.

[ghmerrill]

Update on those straps I got from Amazon: (https://www.amazon.com/dp/B0F43WGJQ8?re ... title&th=1) ...

They're great, and no problems in attaching them. My usual configuration will be to only have one on so I can just sling it on my shoulder for short distance carry. It only takes a minute to get them on or off. I'll probably put the other one on when I have to contend with using both hands to carry stuff, or hike a long distance with everything -- which would be unusual.

[AtomicClock]

I put an aftermarket chest strap on my double Cronkhite bag, and it fell off on its own. Make sure you secure your Ladder Lock Buckles better than I did! Especially if you single-strap it a lot.

Isn't it easier and safer to use a shoulder strap instead of half a backpack?

[ghmerrill]

Isn't it easier and safer to use a shoulder strap instead of half a backpack?

I'm having a fundamental conceptual problem in distinguishing a "shoulder strap" from "half a pair of backpack straps". . Or, equivalently, a "backpack (strap/straps?)" from a pair of shoulder straps.

Aside from that ... the "intended" configuration for the "shoulder strap" (using the D-rings) in this case puts it into what is, for me at least, an odd and unbalanced orientation when on the shoulder. It does seem intended only for carrying the case slung over the shoulder, but parallel to the floor, rather than hanging vertically from the shoulder -- which I don't find to be useful at all.