Do you switch mouthpieces depending on genre on large bore?

[norbie2018]

Or do you use one for all?

[Burgerbob]

I don't have a job playing large bore, so the times I play it are varied and almost never repeat. Therefore I have used many setups.

[Posaunus]

Yes. Different tools for different jobs.

[hyperbolica]

All of my fine tuning comes in smaller bore or bass. All 547 is the same rig.

[AtomicClock]

All of my fine tuning comes in smaller bore or bass. All 547 is the same rig.

A related question might be "If you only had one horn, would you change mouthpieces then?"

[harrisonreed]

I change mouthpieces. A mouthpiece that is perfectly designed for a huge orchestral sound (where you need to play for only a few minutes in a whole concert, sometimes!) will not necessarily get you through a wind orchestra concert (where you are playing for two hours!).

Likewise, to me, the large orchestral mouthpiece is ill suited for chamber ensembles like the brass quintet. A heavy mouthpiece that helps you "send it" is sometimes really hard to get feedback with and "hear yourself", and in those chamber ensembles you can really benefit from a lighter mouthpiece. And gear designed to "send it" is often more trouble than it's worth to tame in a BQ. Also, the endurance factor can be critical in a BQ.

[MStarke]

I don't (normally) change mouthpieces on large bore. When I play large bore, it's within pretty stereotypical settings, symphony orchestra, maybe large wind orchestra, (large) brass ensemble, trombone ensemble.

Within these I might scale down to a small bore if it's appropriate, e.g. jazz style things in trombone ensemble. But I prefer to stay with one mouthpiece "per instrument". Overall I am considering currently to switch to a slightly shallower mouthpiece for large bore however.

[hyperbolica]

A related question might be "If you only had one horn, would you change mouthpieces then?"

Well, yeah, that's easier. If I only had one horn it would be my Benge 175, and I'd use a range of mouthpieces from DE D+ to F or G. On that horn, that means from jazzer to legit. D and D+ are really for bright or punchy stuff - lead and solos, E takes a little edge off, F is for light legit like concert band, and G is max heft, like orchestra or 3rd parts. I will break out the 547 from time to time, but often I'll put the sl2525 on the 88h with the DE G cup and be done with it. The Duo Gravis plays small enough I can cover big tenor parts on that with a 2.0 or 1.5g mouthpiece.

[Matt K]

Yeah I have an Elliott D+, E, G, an I setup, depending on what role I’m filling.

[GabrielRice]

Very few of my colleagues switch mouthpieces on large bore. And those who do do it very rarely.

On bass my everyday is an Elliott XB 114 M/M8. I have a smaller set-up (LB 114 J/J8) that I use for tenor-bass chamber music like L'Histoire, my Conn 70H, and occasionally if I'm playing with alto on my big bass. And if I have something really extreme in the low register I occasionally scale up to an XB 115 or 116 N/N8.

[norbie2018]

Thanks for all the replies.

To add another layer to this;

Do you, as a pro, semi-pro, or advanced amateur, use the same mouthpiece on your large bore when playing solo literature as you do playing in ensembles?

Thanks.

[hyperbolica]

It really depends on the style and what sort of sound the music makes me want to produce.

I was at the DC Army conference and asked one of the players in a traveling pro quintet (the bone player played in the Boston Symphony) if she made any equipment adjustment between quintet and symphony, and she said no.

When I was 25 and I only had one great axe, I probably would have said the same thing. But being older and having been exposed to a lot of different equipment and styles, I think I make more nuanced choices. I just don't think that everything should get the same sound. For the longest time, I only had an 88h. When all you have is a hammer everything looks like a nail.

[LIBrassCo]

Some players do. Some players don't. At all levels. Sometimes those same players change their minds and then do or don't if they did or didn't. Hope that clears it up .

[Kbiggs]

A distant but related question: If you use the same horn, do you change any other equipment when you change genres, such as leadpipe, bell, neckpipe, valve, slide?

Conventional wisdom has been to change the mouthpiece, or change the rim size or cup depth. With modular horns, you can change anything within reason and your budget. Just wondering whether that’s been tried and how well it has worked.

[GabrielRice]

A distant but related question: If you use the same horn, do you change any other equipment when you change genres, such as leadpipe, bell, neckpipe, valve, slide?

I have done that with Shires, and I probably will over time with my Stephens set-up as well.

In particular, I liked having a yellow bell, yellow crook slide combination to use when I needed to keep the sound at its darkest and most grounded in the fundamental. This was especially helpful to me when I was doing a lot of playing in a ballet pit, blowing into close plexiglass shields that reflected back at me. This is also a really nice combination for playing at the bottom of a brass quintet. For tenor-bass chamber music as I mention above, I found it very useful to have a nickel lightweight slide and gold brass bell, for very clear articulations and malleable tone color.

[harrisonreed]

A distant but related question: If you use the same horn, do you change any other equipment when you change genres, such as leadpipe, bell, neckpipe, valve, slide?

Conventional wisdom has been to change the mouthpiece, or change the rim size or cup depth. With modular horns, you can change anything within reason and your budget. Just wondering whether that’s been tried and how well it has worked.

I'd argue that that's not the same horn. Maybe you can get away with changing the lead pipe and calling it the same horn. If you swap out the bell, slide, valve, neck pipe .... It's a different horn

[AtomicClock]

"The Trombone of Theseus" could make for a fun recital piece. Replace a component in between each movement.

[flyingcow]

I definitely grab my tenor mouthpiece when I have to play Farandole...

...I ain't no hero...

[BrassSection]

Many variations in contemporary Christian music styles. Only horn player in the group. I don’t change just the mouthpiece, I change the complete horn as best suits a song, primarily trumpet or trombone, euph not unusual, and French horn gets some use. Christmas puts a little more demand on trumpet, have one song that starts mellow and builds…euph gets mellow part, then down it goes and back to trumpet.

I also think I hear my tuba calling, maybe a little heavy metal Christmas ahead…

[Kbiggs]

I definitely grab my tenor mouthpiece when I have to play Farandole...

...I ain't no hero...

Well, you can always pass it to the 1st trombone, who was actually supposed to play it. The copyist, or printer, or someone made a mistake and switched the last pages of the 1st and 3rd parts.

I ain’t no hero, neither. I make the trade.

[LeTromboniste]

When I played modern bass, I would switch mouthpieces for lighter repertoire if not switching instruments (things like pieces where I was the only trombone, or Haydn, Mozart, Beethoven, etc). I don't see the point of playing the Creation excerpt on a toilet bowl-sized mouthpiece. I never did that on large tenor, though. Maybe that's odd now that I think of it.

[Danitrb]

I prefer don't switch mouthpieces on large bore, I found a combination horn/mouthpiece that gives me flexibility in tone timbre. This means I'm comfortable playing first or second part without changing equipment, still with appropriate sound in both roles. However I'm agree using smaller bore or alto in musical situations that require them. Long story short if I want a different sound I would change directly instrument.

[Matt K]

I definitely also change gear depending on what is being played. Actually, my go-to is similar to the Ralph Sauer for classical - a 525/547. I've only played classical sparingly in the last few years, but the playing always receives a positive reception. I break out the 500/525, too. Both have F attachment,s and most people aren't gear heads, so they aren't listening with their eyes, so to speak. I'm also NOT in the same circles as Gabe is, so significant grains of salt there.

[flyingcow]

I definitely grab my tenor mouthpiece when I have to play Farandole...

...I ain't no hero...

Well, you can always pass it to the 1st trombone, who was actually supposed to play it. The copyist, or printer, or someone made a mistake and switched the last pages of the 1st and 3rd parts.

I ain’t no hero, neither. I make the trade.

I think it was a choice for reduced orchestras. Basically, if you only have one trombone, they play the 3rd part, not the 1st, especially since there isn't a Tuba. In last weeks endeavors, we both played it.

Either way, 3rd on that piece is a tenor part.

[harrisonreed]

Well, you can always pass it to the 1st trombone, who was actually supposed to play it. The copyist, or printer, or someone made a mistake and switched the last pages of the 1st and 3rd parts.

I ain’t no hero, neither. I make the trade.

I think it was a choice for reduced orchestras. Basically, if you only have one trombone, they play the 3rd part, not the 1st, especially since there isn't a Tuba. In last weeks endeavors, we both played it.

Either way, 3rd on that piece is a tenor part.

I believe this is a fairly well known copyist mistake. New editions take this well known issue into consideration and have the swapped parts reverted to the correct parts.

[LeTromboniste]

I think it was a choice for reduced orchestras. Basically, if you only have one trombone, they play the 3rd part, not the 1st, especially since there isn't a Tuba. In last weeks endeavors, we both played it.

Either way, 3rd on that piece is a tenor part.

I believe this is a fairly well known copyist mistake. New editions take this well known issue into consideration and have the swapped parts reverted to the correct parts.

No, not a copyist mistake. It was not uncommon at the time to have reduced forces and only one trombone, where that single player would always play the "bass" part, but that means any trombone solos have to be written in that part. Having a single trombone doubling the bass line is a well-documented practice in France since the 1700s. They would even sometimes add a trombone doubling the cellos in Haydn symphonies! In Paris orchestras they were all playing tenors (and really tiny ones at that), no bass trombones, so it made no difference whatsoever what part a solo was written in, in terms of equipment and sound.

[imsevimse]

Yes. I change model of trombone depending on context. Could be jazz/classical and also role. Lead-trombone might be one favorite and 2:nd might be another. For each trombone I have a couple of mouthpieces. Could be same for many horns or I’ve found a special mouthpiece fits a special horn. If I play bass trombone I chose a single for older material and a double for modern. If I only had one trombone I would still change mouthpiece.

/Tom

[harrisonreed]

I believe this is a fairly well known copyist mistake. New editions take this well known issue into consideration and have the swapped parts reverted to the correct parts.

No, not a copyist mistake. It was not uncommon at the time to have reduced forces and only one trombone, where that single player would always play the "bass" part, but that means any trombone solos have to be written in that part. Having a single trombone doubling the bass line is a well-documented practice in France since the 1700s. They would even sometimes add a trombone doubling the cellos in Haydn symphonies! In Paris orchestras they were all playing tenors (and really tiny ones at that), no bass trombones, so it made no difference whatsoever what part a solo was written in, in terms of equipment and sound.

Well, I'll buy that from you both then (including the poster that prompted my original comment). My apologies!

It makes sense, especially if originally written for all parts on three tenors.

I guess the question would be ... are the changes to recent editions justified? Did Bizet write it that way in his manuscript or was the intentional change made during editing, given the publishing practices at the time? I now have no idea so that would be interesting to know!

[MrHCinDE]

With my main large bore Bach-Edward’s-Rapp horn, I dabble with a few mouthpieces now and again at home and in rehearsals, but since I owned a DE F+, haven’t played a single gig on that horn with anything else.

I do switch between a D and the F+ on my Olds Opera depending on context for the much less frequent occasions I play it.

[Soulbrass]

I switch cup depth. Decision is more dependent on range/requirement of parts than genre.

.547” is DE XT G or G+…G+ is 80%. Same rim on everything.

[LeTromboniste]

No, not a copyist mistake. It was not uncommon at the time to have reduced forces and only one trombone, where that single player would always play the "bass" part, but that means any trombone solos have to be written in that part. Having a single trombone doubling the bass line is a well-documented practice in France since the 1700s. They would even sometimes add a trombone doubling the cellos in Haydn symphonies! In Paris orchestras they were all playing tenors (and really tiny ones at that), no bass trombones, so it made no difference whatsoever what part a solo was written in, in terms of equipment and sound.

Well, I'll buy that from you both then (including the poster that prompted my original comment). My apologies!

It makes sense, especially if originally written for all parts on three tenors.

I guess the question would be ... are the changes to recent editions justified? Did Bizet write it that way in his manuscript or was the intentional change made during editing, given the publishing practices at the time? I now have no idea so that would be interesting to know!

I think the changes to modern editions are justified by modern practice. Since it's no longer 3 tiny tenors, but two tenors and a big bass, switching it to the top part makes sense. Or else, the third trombone should probably consider playing it on a tenor.

[CalgaryTbone]

I have used a shallower cup (same rim) when I've played an orchestra concert that has some more commercial repertoire mixed with classical pieces. Certain Community concerts, or perhaps a show in a park can have a tune or two that would be better on a small bore horn, but there isn't enough to justify dragging two instruments. It can be a pretty good compromise.

Jim Scott

[Finetales]

So far I haven't felt a huge need to change mouthpieces on large bore. I certainly could if I really wanted to be picky between principal, 2nd, and solo, but I don't do any of that very often so I'm not bothered. My DE setup does what I need on all of those things, and any time I feel like I need a lighter sound I just grab a .525.

Having said that, it would be fun to try an F+ cup.

[Pezza]

I change depending on if I'm on 1-2 or bass!
But I rarely play a large bore.

[Kbiggs]

I believe this is a fairly well known copyist mistake. New editions take this well known issue into consideration and have the swapped parts reverted to the correct parts.

No, not a copyist mistake. It was not uncommon at the time to have reduced forces and only one trombone, where that single player would always play the "bass" part, but that means any trombone solos have to be written in that part. Having a single trombone doubling the bass line is a well-documented practice in France since the 1700s. They would even sometimes add a trombone doubling the cellos in Haydn symphonies! In Paris orchestras they were all playing tenors (and really tiny ones at that), no bass trombones, so it made no difference whatsoever what part a solo was written in, in terms of equipment and sound.

I took this as gospel for many years despite learning this about performance practice in late 19th C. France. (When a well-known bass trombonist tells you something in a lesson, it tends to stick in your memory.)

Project for the next life: stop assuming things, start questioning things, and view things more critically.

[SamBTbrn]

Well this also depends on when a work was written and played in France. Although many of French orchestras used the small bore 3 tenors from early in the 1800's, there was still a time (up until 1840's) where some orchestras in France used a section of Alto in F, tenor in Bb and Bass in G. The Lyon opera for example was known to be doing this up until at least 1842.

[Kevbach33]

For me, there's no need to at this time. My 5GL is plenty of mouthpiece for my needs and have not needed the 5G or Warburton 9ST set up.

If I were to find myself playing 2nd in a community orchestra at some point, maybe then I'll bring the deeper pieces.

[tbonesullivan]

Depends on what the piece and the conductor asks for. Usually I have two mouthpieces I use with every horn, one for 1st and one for 2nd. So I have a Hammond 59MD for first and a 59D for second. If they want a bit brighter sound I'll switch to a Hammond 11ML.

[SpencerChapman]

Professional Freelancer (tenor is my primary but I play all the horns in my signature on a rotating basis depending on the gig schedule.)

I use a custom GB piece for 95% of my .547 work (GB NY 5 series rim on a 4GSW under part in medium weight)

The other 5%
-GB NY6M, often with my heavier 7YLW cut bell flare (heavy section trombone parts in big groups)
-GB NY5AL-M Futuro or GB NY5M Futuro, mostly for pops/crossover/pit/etc. kind of gigs…or for when I’m really out of shape on big tenor because I’ve been playing bass or small tenor more and neglecting my met & potatoes on the main axe.
-FWIW now that I’ve got a .525 NLW slide I bring the full .547 setup less and less to those pops/crossover/pit/etc. kind of gigs…

[BrianJohnston]

I have 1 (Hammond F3) mouthpiece I use for 1st & or 2nd standard orchestral rep. Then I have 1 (Marcinciewicz 9BS) mouthpiece I use to downsize on my large bore.

Ideally I would own a Bach 34 and just use that with my main mouthpiece, but having 1 LB tenor and 2 mouthpieces is more financially practical.