Yamaha Bass trombone 622 vs 822 (Doug Yeo)

[Ismael]

Hi everyone. I have a question. I'm thinking of buying a bass trombone. Specifically, I'm interested in the Yamaha 622 (the older Yeo model), which is more affordable, or the 822 (the updated Yeo model), which is more expensive. They look the same. But what are the differences between them in terms of sound, articulation, weight, etc.? Is the 622 worth buying? And lastly, does anyone want to sell either of these models? Thanks.

[AtomicClock]

https://www.trombonechat.com/viewtopic. ... 22#p234859

[Burgerbob]

If you're into that style of horn, the 822 is better. The 622 is not bad by any means but it's definitely an improvement going to the 822.

I personally don't like these horns that much- they seem very much dialed in for Mr. Yeo, and his style of playing and what he did with it are not what I do.

[Ismael]

If you're into that style of horn, the 822 is better. The 622 is not bad by any means but it's definitely an improvement going to the 822.

I personally don't like these horns that much- they seem very much dialed in for Mr. Yeo, and his style of playing and what he did with it are not what I do.

My initial idea was to use a bass trombone with a single valve. But then I considered these two Yamaha models, the 622 and 822 Yeo, since I can remove and replace the second valve. That way, I wouldn't have to give up a second valve if I needed it. Although I already have another bass trombone for this purpose with two independent valves. Do you think it would be better to buy a Bach 50B single-valve trombone from the 1980s?

[Burgerbob]

If you want a single, I would absolutely get a 50B over a X22 Yamaha.

[Rusty]

I own an 822, and for me it plays better with both valves. If I was looking for a single valve horn the Yamaha 421 is great, super easy to get a nice sound on.

[sirisobhakya]

If you just want to have a single valve bass, I also second the 421G. Much cheaper and lighter.

[Posaunus]

Yamaha 421G is a great choice - affordable, robust, decent quality, widely available outside U.S., less risky than a used Bach 50B - but only if you (like me) can live with "merely" a single valve.

You must determine what / where you will be playing (literature, ensembles).

[Matt K]

What is your main bass trombone? That will probably be helpful in answering the question with more precision. If you typically play a 50B2, a 50B bell section is going to make a lot of sense. If you play a Shires or Edwards, "just" getting a single valve section is probably going to make more sense, and swapping out as needed.

[Ismael]

What is your main bass trombone? That will probably be helpful in answering the question with more precision. If you typically play a 50B2, a 50B bell section is going to make a lot of sense. If you play a Shires or Edwards, "just" getting a single valve section is probably going to make more sense, and swapping out as needed.

I play a German-style bass trombone, but it's a Spanish brand. They're very high quality, as the materials are the same as Thein trombones. It has two Hagman valves and a detachable bell for changing with a Vibra Bell system. I've heard good things about Yeo models, but also about the single-valve Bach 50B. I had also considered the Yamaha 421, but it's not a professional model. I don't know how the 421 would perform in large symphony orchestras and professional bands.

[sirisobhakya]

I play a German-style bass trombone, but it's a Spanish brand. They're very high quality, as the materials are the same as Thein trombones. It has two Hagman valves and a detachable bell for changing with a Vibra Bell system. I've heard good things about Yeo models, but also about the single-valve Bach 50B. I had also considered the Yamaha 421, but it's not a professional model. I don't know how the 421 would perform in large symphony orchestras and professional bands.

Stomvi right? How does it play? I have always wanted to try them but no chance yet...

The 421 will serve you well. Being "intermediate" model as per Yamaha's term is just that the horn lacks some bling of the higher-end models, but the manufacturing tolerances and standards are the same.

[Matt K]

Yeah, and what constitutes "bling" is almost exclusively aesthetic. It often means less nickel trim and that sort of things. On tenors, it sometimes means heavier bells, but I've never felt the basses were too heavy on any of the Yamahas I've played.

If I were buying blind, I'd go for a Yamaha 4xx over a 50B personally... but I've played some pretty decent 50Bs. I've played 3xx and 4xx Yamahas professionally no problem. I haven't played particularly old Yamahas (like early 80s) but that aside, I have yet to play a rotor on any of them that wasn't great.

I don't know much about the Stomvi bones, so I can't really say if they're more similar to one or the other.

That said though... if you mentioned an 822 as being an option (~$6k USD at time of writing) then that implies you have a variable budget to me. And you have a Hagmann set of valves where the bell can be modular anyway... you may wish to just get a single valve made? It won't be cheap, probably more than a Yamaha 4xx series and maybe a 50B, but it'll work with your existing setup. Presumably Stomvi (or whomever makes your bass trombone) would consider it or be able to furnish enough parts to have someone else make it. And you can use a Hagmann valve that way too which would be even more similar to what you're used to.

Or is the idea you'd be getting rid of this other trombone? I get the idea of wanting a good playing single valve (I have a great Shires single valve, myself), but if I had a boutique horn like that and a budget inline with what I presume yours is, I'd rather try to use it for as much as I could!

[Ismael]

Yeah, and what constitutes "bling" is almost exclusively aesthetic. It often means less nickel trim and that sort of things. On tenors, it sometimes means heavier bells, but I've never felt the basses were too heavy on any of the Yamahas I've played.

If I were buying blind, I'd go for a Yamaha 4xx over a 50B personally... but I've played some pretty decent 50Bs. I've played 3xx and 4xx Yamahas professionally no problem. I haven't played particularly old Yamahas (like early 80s) but that aside, I have yet to play a rotor on any of them that wasn't great.

I don't know much about the Stomvi bones, so I can't really say if they're more similar to one or the other.

That said though... if you mentioned an 822 as being an option (~$6k USD at time of writing) then that implies you have a variable budget to me. And you have a Hagmann set of valves where the bell can be modular anyway... you may wish to just get a single valve made? It won't be cheap, probably more than a Yamaha 4xx series and maybe a 50B, but it'll work with your existing setup. Presumably Stomvi (or whomever makes your bass trombone) would consider it or be able to furnish enough parts to have someone else make it. And you can use a Hagmann valve that way too which would be even more similar to what you're used to.

Or is the idea you'd be getting rid of this other trombone? I get the idea of wanting a good playing single valve (I have a great Shires single valve, myself), but if I had a boutique horn like that and a budget inline with what I presume yours is, I'd rather try to use it for as much as I could!

It's not a Stomvi. I already had one and didn't like it; too many problems with the rotors. My trombone is a Sonas brand. It's the same quality as Thein, made with the same materials.

I think I might buy the 622, which is cheaper, and I can also remove or replace the second valve whenever I want. But on the other hand, I'm drawn to the idea of ​​the single-valve Bach 50B. It's from the 80s and is in perfect condition, both aesthetically and functionally. Micha Davis, bass trombonist with the Israel Symphony Orchestra, plays it (his sound impresses me). Aidan also says he prefers it.
I haven't tried the Yamaha 421, and I don't know if it will fall short of my expectations. I'll think about all of this.

[Ismael]

I play a German-style bass trombone, but it's a Spanish brand. They're very high quality, as the materials are the same as Thein trombones. It has two Hagman valves and a detachable bell for changing with a Vibra Bell system. I've heard good things about Yeo models, but also about the single-valve Bach 50B. I had also considered the Yamaha 421, but it's not a professional model. I don't know how the 421 would perform in large symphony orchestras and professional bands.

Stomvi right? How does it play? I have always wanted to try them but no chance yet...

My Trombon is Sonas Brand.

The 421 will serve you well. Being "intermediate" model as per Yamaha's term is just that the horn lacks some bling of the higher-end models, but the manufacturing tolerances and standards are the same.

[Matt K]

Buying a 50B blind vs. buying one that is a known good commodity is a very different thing. If you know it already play great then there's hardly any reason to avoid it if you want a single plug!

[RJMason]

I loveeee Yamaha horns but after reading the situation: play the Sonas as your modern bass and get the 50B as a vintage single valve. You’ll cover the most ground that way. 80s Bachs are great.

[MStarke]

I play a German-style bass trombone, but it's a Spanish brand. They're very high quality, as the materials are the same as Thein trombones.

Just out of curiosity: What exactly do you mean by "the materials are the same as Thein trombones"? I had a quick look at the website and they seem to be somewhat similar to Theins using partly the same valves, kind of similar approaches to design and where to use which material. But I don't personally wouldn't expect that the actual material (like the sheet metal...) that Thein is using is somehow better than other high quality makers. Just trying to understand.

[Ismael]

I play a German-style bass trombone, but it's a Spanish brand. They're very high quality, as the materials are the same as Thein trombones.

Just out of curiosity: What exactly do you mean by "the materials are the same as Thein trombones"? I had a quick look at the website and they seem to be somewhat similar to Theins using partly the same valves, kind of similar approaches to design and where to use which material. But I don't personally wouldn't expect that the actual material (like the sheet metal...) that Thein is using is somehow better than other high quality makers. Just trying to understand.

I understand that the brass for both brands comes from a mine in Bremen, Germany. Personally, I'm very happy with my Sonas trombone. I just want to know, based on your experience, if the Yamaha 622-822 is better for removing or adding the second valve, or if the single-valve Bach 50B is better.

[MStarke]

I understand that the brass for both brands comes from a mine in Bremen, Germany. Personally, I'm very happy with my Sonas trombone.

Thanks, I don't know if this really makes a difference, but it's definitely interesting. And sounds like Sonas are great instruments!

[CuriousKen]

I can't speak to the 622 vs 822, but I can speak to the 622 vs 50B. I own both a 622 (w/a factory after market gold brass bell) and an excellent Corp era 50B. For most of the time I've owned the Bach it was setup in a dependent configuration. Although it started as a single valve (story for another day). When I got the Yamaha it seemed to me that Yeo went to Yamaha with his favorite Bach 50 and had them build something that achieved the same sonic results. I've posted before, if the hand grips didn't feel slightly different, I wouldn't be able to tell the two instruments apart from how they blow to how they sound. I wasn't expecting that when I picked up the Yamaha and I wasn't disappointed either as I got the Yamaha as a backup/spare. The horns are so close that in my mind the 622 is the best off the shelf new Bach 50 you can buy today. Given what I know about new Bachs coming out of the factory, I would buy either a new 622 or 822 over a 50 every time. Don't get me wrong, I love my Bach horns, but but my 50 and 42 are Corp era horns and both of them have been rebuilt with upgraded valves and zero internal stress throughout the horns.