Benefits of flutter tongue?

[MStarke]

I had a lesson a few weeks ago, with a trumpet professor.

Among other things he recommended me to use flutter tongue for (parts of) my warm-up. I know many people do this, but I did not 100% get his explanation. My understanding is that it should help bringing the tongue in the correct (?) position and basically forcing you to make better/more use of your air.

I seem to notice some advantage, and would like to hear your experiences and perspectives!

[LeTromboniste]

I know several people who do that, to help make sure they are using their air properly. Some of the people I know who use that sound great. Others not so much. I wouldn't be able to say if their use of flutter tongue is contributing to their sounding good or bad. I can see how it can help ensure you use "enough" air, if you need a certain baseline amount for your technique to work.

I don't see how it would help with setting the tongue placement, because I believe the tongue placement should change according with the register as well as with the desired sound colour and dynamic.

Very personally, the way I use my air, I don't see how this would help me, but I see many ways in which it would hurt me. My approach to using air is based on very fine control of air quantity and speed, with extreme and sudden changes when needed, and being able to produce a sound (a control it) even with the most minimal amount of air. So I see air not as a background element that needs to be as steady and even as a requirement to my technique to work, but instead as my primary tool for musical expression. I use as little air as I need to use to get the sound I want, not as much air as possible. As such I don't see how my playing would be helped by a warm-up component designed to raise the baseline amount of air I use.

[GabrielRice]

Norman Bolter started having students do this after I studied with him. I've experimented a little, but I don't find it particularly helpful for me.

I will say, however, that I've played with Wycliffe Gordon a few times and observed him in pretty close proximity. I think his flexibility with the tongue - including many gradations of flutter tongue and how he colors the sound and covers such a wide range - is a key element of his tone production and facility.

[tbdana]

I'll be blunt and succinct. My opinion is that as an effect it's great, but as a practice method of improving anything other than your flutter tongue, it's sheer bunk. (And annoying to listen to.) But as with all things trombone, if it works for you, then it just works for you. A mystery of the universe.

[mbarbier]

The way it was taught to me, that I've found really helpful over the years, is that it's a great diagnostic tool for ones air stream, especially in relation to orchestral style playing. The flutter needs a minimum volume of air to work- so if you're under blowing it will fail.

So if a slur is sticking or you keep missing something in a Rochut, play it with a flutter and focus on the evenness of fluttered sound. If the flutter stops or has a bump in it, that's where the issue is, but 9/10 I've found just doing it will fix the issue. I find it really helpful in quickly diagnosing (and fixing) issues with air.

I've also really struggled with "first note syndrome" off and on over the years. The immediacy of a flutter really helps me bypass it. Anytime it starts to pop up I just flutter some long tones or slurs and tends to reset the issue.

Not to everyone's liking, but been super helpful for me.

[WilliamLang]

I'm with Mattie in that I find it's a good diagnostic tool for students and accessing orchestral sound/volume. Holding a note with flutter than releasing the flutter can often cause a large rounded sound to remain, and some students need help with getting there. I haven't used it much for onset symptoms, but that seems like an interesting tool that I'll put in the repertoire, just in case it helps anyone.

For me it's not about creating the perfect universal system of teaching trombone but having the right tools for the specific person, imho.

[LeTromboniste]

True, I've used it too as a diagnostic tool, with myself and with students. It is very useful in some contexts.

[MStarke]

Thanks all! Appreciate your perspectives!

With a few days gone by, I think for me it may just be one more way to "activate" my playing and getting the air flowing, also in a little stressful situations. It could just be one more way to "trick" your brain.

[UrbanaDave]

Don’t miss this similar discussion. I think there is more to this as a useful technique.
https://trombonechat.com/viewtopic.php?t=41710