"Signature" 2000 Custom Series made in U.S.A.

[rzeilinger]

Anybody familiar with this model?
Serial T2186

I just bought this Large bore straight tenor.
It has.....
.542 to .544 single bore (I'm not getting a clear reading, but far from .547)
8.5" Red brass bell & outer sleeves
Yellow brass body, upper slide sleeves and slide crook.
Chrome or nickel hand brace

My research says there were trumpets made by Don E. Getzen (DEG) with this name and series designed as it's top professional line, but I can't find anything about trombones with the same name.

Anyone know anything about this or these?

Thanks

[Finetales]

The DEG Signature 2000 line had more than just trumpets, and at least some (maybe all?) of the line was made for DEG by Willson, so it's possible this trombone was as well. It would make sense with the bore size as well, given that Willson works in metric. 13.9mm ≈ .547", while 13.8mm ≈ .543".

Seems like a very interesting horn. Do you have pictures?

[JohnL]

Yes, pictures would be nice. A close-up of the engraving, at least.

If it was made in the USA, the most likely suspects would be Allied or Blessing.

[wayne88ny]

There's one with an F-Attachment on Reverb with lots of pictures.

https://reverb.com/item/61431236-signat ... ed-no-case

[rzeilinger]

These are the only markings on the horn.

Ron

[rzeilinger]

Sold already

There's one with an F-Attachment on Reverb with lots of pictures.

https://reverb.com/item/61431236-signat ... ed-no-case

[rzeilinger]

The DEG Signature 2000 line had more than just trumpets, and at least some (maybe all?) of the line was made for DEG by Willson, so it's possible this trombone was as well. It would make sense with the bore size as well, given that Willson works in metric. 13.9mm ≈ .547", while 13.8mm ≈ .543".

Seems like a very interesting horn. Do you have pictures?

I have a video....will that work?

[JohnL]

The DEG Signature 2000 line had more than just trumpets, and at least some (maybe all?) of the line was made for DEG by Willson, so it's possible this trombone was as well. It would make sense with the bore size as well, given that Willson works in metric. 13.9mm ≈ .547", while 13.8mm ≈ .543".

Seems like a very interesting horn. Do you have pictures?

I have a video....will that work?

Not really. When trying to identify the manufacturer of a stencil horn, you need to look at details like ferrules, braces, and cork barrels. If it had an f-attachment, one would also look at the valve and linkage.

For example - the Elkhart-built Blessing B-88's I've seen have thick ferrules with rather sharp corners. The Signature 2000 trombone that sold recently on Reverb has a good pic of the end crook ferrules on the outer slide; they look like Blessing parts to me.

Then again, Blessing made parts for a lot of other companies, so the presence of a few Blessing parts isn't conclusive evidence that Blessing made the entire instrument. The same goes for Allied.

To the best of my knowledge, DEG never made instruments; they were all stencils. Instruments were made for DEG, not by DEG. A lot of them were made by Allied, but Willson, Blessing, and Emo (Germany) are also cited as suppliers. I have a foggy recollection that they may have also done business with Weril, but that's hearsay at best.

DEG did have a close relationship with Allied for many years, but neither company seems to have had much to do with Getzen until Allied bought the then-bankrupt Getzen in 1991.

As an aside, I had never heard of Kiefer Manufacturing (located in Elkhart and not to be confused with the Brua C. Keefer Manufacturing Company of Williamsport, PA) before I started looking into this. Kiefer apparently made bells for other companies and was bought out by Allied in 1989 and absorbed into the Allied operation in Elkhorn.

I do find it interesting that there seems to have been an attempt to distance the Signature 2000 line from the DEG name. I wonder if that was happening at the same time that DEG was placing more emphasis on the Dynasty brand for some of their other offerings?

[Finetales]

To the best of my knowledge, DEG never made instruments; they were all stencils. Instruments were made for DEG, not by DEG. A lot of them were made by Allied, but Willson, Blessing, and Emo (Germany) are also cited as suppliers. I have a foggy recollection that they may have also done business with Weril, but that's hearsay at best.

As far as I know, the brand Dynasty never made their own instruments either. Early ones were Willson, middle ones were Allied, and late ones were Weril.

I do find it interesting that there seems to have been an attempt to distance the Signature 2000 line from the DEG name. I wonder if that was happening at the same time that DEG was placing more emphasis on the Dynasty brand for some of their other offerings?

The switch from DEG to Dynasty for band instruments (the G bugles were always branded Dynasty) seems like it was a gradual one. I've seen transitional instruments that are stamped both DEG and Dynasty, rather than one or the other.

I've never seen a Signature 2000 instrument with any DEG marking on the bell, only Signature 2000, so it does seem like they were trying to distance the line from the rest of the brand. Kind of like Jupiter with XO.

The Signature 2000 line had 3 and 4 valve piccolo trumpets, Eb trumpet, D trumpet, C trumpet, 2 Bb trumpets, 2 British-style cornets, flugelhorn, and apparently at least one model of trombone. I know the flugelhorn was made by Willson, and the cornets were likely made by Getzen/Allied as they look identical to the Capri and Eterna cornets still made today. The high brass models are sought after enough that there is a Facebook group dedicated to them, but there is very little out there about the trombones.