Clocking in with a question

[Alpacamack]

A couple of weeks ago, the lead trumpet player in our jazz group talked about how he always clocked his mouthpiece, that is, inserting the mouthpiece into his horn at a specific orientation, using markings on the mouthpiece to align it the way he wants it. He claimed he could hear significant differences in the quality of his playing. I had never heard of anyone doing that before, so I looked around on the internet for more information. It seems to be a common practice for trumpet players to clock their mouthpieces, but I saw almost no references to trombone players doing it. I thought I would ask the chat members if they pay attention to their mouthpiece orientation like trumpet players do.

BTW, I have started clocking my mouthpiece. It may be all in my head, but it does seem to me to subtlety affect the tone of my playing.

[Burgerbob]

Christan Griego has talked about it. I have a friend (top shelf player) that does as well.

I'm sure it makes a difference, I just don't want to put in the time to figure it out on all my horns.

[hornbuilder]

I could see this being a thing with a mouthpiece that is not machined concentrically. But on a mouthpiece that is correctly machined, the player is going to vary more day to day than the difference in rotating a mouthpiece, IMO

[Kdanielsen]

I think it makes a difference, especially how hard its twisted in. Just sitting in the leadpipe feels a lot different than twisted in there. I play a wedge mouthpiece now and clocking is obviously very important with those.

[Bonearzt]

I think it makes a difference, especially how hard its twisted in. Just sitting in the leadpipe feels a lot different than twisted in there. I play a wedge mouthpiece now and clocking is obviously very important with those.

This is different than "clocking".

Yes, seating a mouthpiece is important to get a good seal and mechanical connection to the horn.

Clocking is setting the mouthpiece in a very specific position in relation to the horn and your face.

[tbonesullivan]

I have heard of this, but try as I may, I have not found any mouthpieces that respond to clocking. Most that I have are ones that were made on CNC lathes, possibly multi-axis, which means that they should be pretty much symmetrical. They also are probably laser etched, not stamped, so there wouldn't be any stresses build up from that process either.

I remember reading about how when Horn Guys first made the Minnick replicas, particularly the Jeff Reynolds pieces, they would all come with a note from Jeff on how they played. As technology progressed however, that stopped being the case.

I will have to talk to some of the players I know in my area next to I see them who are big fans of vintage mouthpieces, particularly the Peppy fans, to see if they have any thoughts.

[Kdanielsen]

I think it makes a difference, especially how hard its twisted in. Just sitting in the leadpipe feels a lot different than twisted in there. I play a wedge mouthpiece now and clocking is obviously very important with those.

This is different than "clocking".

Yes, seating a mouthpiece is important to get a good seal and mechanical connection to the horn.

Clocking is setting the mouthpiece in a very specific position in relation to the horn and your face.

I know, and I agree.

[2bobone]

I did it all the time without ever having heard the term "clocking".

[mrdeacon]

Rims aren’t perfect. I’ve always clocked my mouthpieces to keep things consistent on my face.

Does it help? I dunno. At this point it’s just an OCD thing I do when I setup my horn lol.

[Gfunk]

If I remember correctly Christain Griego mentioned clocking with regard to mouthpieces that have been dropped and had the shank returned to round. I think the asymmetry would be noticeable to the player then, even if it was machined perfectly.

[JTeagarden]

Among my many unproductive musings about horn design is whether there is anything to having an integral mouthpiece and leadpipe on a trombone, to remove the step between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe?

Impractical to make, or no benefit to doing so?

[mrdeacon]

Among my many unproductive musings about horn design is whether there is anything to having an integral mouthpiece and leadpipe on a trombone, to remove the step between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe?

Impractical to make, or no benefit to doing so?

There was one guy who was making super long leadpipes with integral mouthpieces. I don’t remember the name of the company anymore. I tried them at an ITF one year and they were interesting.

[JTeagarden]

There was one guy who was making super long leadpipes with integral mouthpieces. I don’t remember the name of the company anymore. I tried them at an ITF one year and they were interesting.

I would guess Matthew Walker has considered this at some point.

[Blabberbucket]

Among my many unproductive musings about horn design is whether there is anything to having an integral mouthpiece and leadpipe on a trombone, to remove the step between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe?

Impractical to make, or no benefit to doing so?

There was one guy who was making super long leadpipes with integral mouthpieces. I don’t remember the name of the company anymore. I tried them at an ITF one year and they were interesting.

MAD Pipes

[musicofnote]

I think it makes a difference, especially how hard its twisted in. Just sitting in the leadpipe feels a lot different than twisted in there. I play a wedge mouthpiece now and clocking is obviously very important with those.

This is different than "clocking".

Yes, seating a mouthpiece is important to get a good seal and mechanical connection to the horn.

Clocking is setting the mouthpiece in a very specific position in relation to the horn and your face.

Au contraire, Monsieur Edwards. If you have a Wedge, as the poster wrote, you do actually "clock" the Wedge mouthpiece. Depending upon the Wedge mouthpiece, you have either one or two orientation holes on the outer side of the rim. One is supposed to be at 12.00 o'clock and the other at 06:00 o'clock. If you only have one whole, same deal, except it's either 12.00 OR 06.00 o'clock, with 06.00 o'clock being more logical, as you can see that position better as you insert the mouthpiece. So yes, this is "clocking", as it's "setting the mouthpiece in a very specific position in relation to the horn and your face."

[hyperbolica]

Yeah, I believe the whole clocking thing is rubbish. Unless there's some gross imperfection in the mouthpiece (or it's a Wedge or intentionally bent to correct horn angle). Getting tightly connected to the receiver can have a real effect, but as stated earlier, that's a different thing. If your mouthpiece doesn't fit just by placing it in with a little effort, something needs to be replaced or repaired.

[Fridge]

Well, Van Haney did this for me, starting in the fall of 1975 when I was a junior in high school. I’ve done it ever since. Paul Faulise did it, and so did George Roberts. It may not have any effect on newer pieces, but it certainly doesn’t hurt anything. Van took a pencil and drew a line inside my mouthpiece to line up with something on my slide. My two cents worth.

Eddie Clark

[JTeagarden]

MAD Pipes

Thanks, exactly, something like this! I went to the Madbone, Inc. site, this is exactly what I was imagining.

Given that it seems to exist, I have to assume that, with the group of gearheads we have on this site, that such a construvction really doesn't make much of a difference (since there are enough of us here who will try a new tuning slide or leadpipe "just 'cause.")

Could also be poor execution of a great concept, who knows? But it would seem that something might be lost in the energy transfer that takes place between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe, we all know that a poorly seated mouthpiece doesn't help with resonance or intonation...

[mrdeacon]

MAD Pipes

Thanks, exactly, something like this! I went to the Madbone, Inc. site, this is exactly what I was imagining.

Given that it seems to exist, I have to assume that, with the group of gearheads we have on this site, that such a construvction really doesn't make much of a difference (since there are enough of us here who will try a new tuning slide or leadpipe "just 'cause.")

Could also be poor execution of a great concept, who knows? But it would seem that something might be lost in the energy transfer that takes place between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe, we all know that a poorly seated mouthpiece doesn't help with resonance or intonation...

The thing I remember most is that it added a ton of weight since the leadpipe was super long. I don’t remember there being a big enough improvement to warrant the extra weight.

The idea is very cool though. If the inner slide was a leadpipe and it was all integrated that would be interesting! I can imagine having a TIS horn with an integrated leadpipe like that being neat.

[chromebone]

Clocking made a difference with an old 4G I once had which had a backbore that was clearly not centered, but on any modern CNC made mouthpiece it shouldn’t make a difference.

[LIBrassCo]

I could see this being a thing with a mouthpiece that is not machined concentrically. But on a mouthpiece that is correctly machined, the player is going to vary more day to day than the difference in rotating a mouthpiece, IMO

This. I even do my finish work in a way that maintains concentricity.

[WGWTR180]

Thanks, exactly, something like this! I went to the Madbone, Inc. site, this is exactly what I was imagining.

Given that it seems to exist, I have to assume that, with the group of gearheads we have on this site, that such a construvction really doesn't make much of a difference (since there are enough of us here who will try a new tuning slide or leadpipe "just 'cause.")

Could also be poor execution of a great concept, who knows? But it would seem that something might be lost in the energy transfer that takes place between the mouthpiece shank and the leadpipe, we all know that a poorly seated mouthpiece doesn't help with resonance or intonation...

The thing I remember most is that it added a ton of weight since the leadpipe was super long. I don’t remember there being a big enough improvement to warrant the extra weight.

The idea is very cool though. If the inner slide was a leadpipe and it was all integrated that would be interesting! I can imagine having a TIS horn with an integrated leadpipe like that being neat.

I asked for an explanation about these MAD pipes awhile back from the maker-crickets.

[timothy42b]

I asked for an explanation about these MAD pipes awhile back from the maker-crickets.

I talked with him at the last ATW. His explanations made sense and he seemed like a nice guy. I think there might be something to this. I have his card somewhere, I can probably dig it up if you want.